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Changing Timing Belt


neasmh

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Well the chain lasts much longer than the belt I believe, you would have to replace the adjuster bearings from time to time and when you do that you can check the chain as well.

I wonder why manufacturers use belts at all when they can use the more dependable chains though they tend to be a bit more noisy.

Havent touched the engine yet Don.. but it is a bit under-compressed now :( and she does burn some oil.. :( so i guess better check all that when its time for the over-haul..

I was thinking the same, why timing chains are not used in newer engines..

Found these plus points on timing belts over chains in the net.. :)

  • A belt drive can increase power over a timing chain through less frictional loss, more precise timing, smoother valvetrain motion etc..
  • A belt drive can make cam timing changes and camshaft swaps less painful.
  • A belt drive also isolates the crankshaft's torsional vibrations from the camshaft better than a chain.
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Havent touched the engine yet Don.. but it is a bit under-compressed now :( and she does burn some oil.. :( so i guess better check all that when its time for the over-haul..

I was thinking the same, why timing chains are not used in newer engines..

Found these plus points on timing belts over chains in the net.. :)

  • A belt drive can increase power over a timing chain through less frictional loss, more precise timing, smoother valvetrain motion etc..
  • A belt drive can make cam timing changes and camshaft swaps less painful.
  • A belt drive also isolates the crankshaft's torsional vibrations from the camshaft better than a chain.

I would have picked the most obvious reason to be expense and ease of manufacture.

Not sure about the the belt being more precise. The chain has cogs, so it will never slip, as a belt might. Not that I've heard it happening and I'm no expert, but it just seems that way. I have no idea on the other point, and I'm not even sure what torsional vibrations are to have an opinion on the belt, but the precision point seems odd.

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Timing belts are lighter in weight and cause less noise and need no lubrication. Chains in old 1970 etc. engines were more reliable but noisy and weighed more so not as fuel efficient. There are more pros and cons but at the end of the day cost seems to override everything else!

The modern chain set ups seems to have forgotten all the lessons learnt in the old days, they seem to have very poor tensioners and seems to last even less time than a good quality timing belts. I see this on a weekly basis in cars like the Nissan primera and Almera, Vauxhall corsa's Volkswagen Polo's etc. These and many others end up with loose timing chains causing very expensive repairs. A belt maintained correctly will give it's intended service very well and other repairs like removing the cylinder head is very much simpler when a belt drive system is fitted whilst a chain system takes a lot longer to dismantle and the potential for oil leaks is greater after re assembly. So the argument seems to go on!

I have little faith in the new timing chains used in the modern engines. But a well designed and fitted chain will give a longer service life in a well maintained car.

My opinion of course!

Maithri

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Timing belts are lighter in weight and cause less noise and need no lubrication. Chains in old 1970 etc. engines were more reliable but noisy and weighed more so not as fuel efficient. There are more pros and cons but at the end of the day cost seems to override everything else!

The modern chain set ups seems to have forgotten all the lessons learnt in the old days, they seem to have very poor tensioners and seems to last even less time than a good quality timing belts. I see this on a weekly basis in cars like the Nissan primera and Almera, Vauxhall corsa's Volkswagen Polo's etc. These and many others end up with loose timing chains causing very expensive repairs. A belt maintained correctly will give it's intended service very well and other repairs like removing the cylinder head is very much simpler when a belt drive system is fitted whilst a chain system takes a lot longer to dismantle and the potential for oil leaks is greater after re assembly. So the argument seems to go on!

I have little faith in the new timing chains used in the modern engines. But a well designed and fitted chain will give a longer service life in a well maintained car.

My opinion of course!

Maithri

I have heard quite a number of recalls from both nissan and Vaxuall regarding timing chain issues. Could u please give us some tips on maintaining the timing chain? Does the chain gets its lubrication from the engine oil?

Also is there any investigation that we could carry out ourselves to find a faulty chain or tensioner? Im sure quite a number of members here must be having cars with Nissan SR20DE s.

Were Nissan GA14DE and GA16DE engines came with timing chain as well?

Cheers.

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The chains are maintainance free-the lubrication is by the engine oil and the tension is set by automatic adjusters. Apart from regular oil changes no further action is needed, at the rate you change oil in SL at around 5000KM's the oil will hardly ever be an issue for the chain. In my view most of the current problems with timing chains are due to poor design, all the so called wonder boys had to do was go to the library and read up on old timing chain set ups most of which are still used very effectively by BMW and Mercedes engines, Why try to re invent the wheel-when the current one works very well!

If anyone has a nissan with a QG16 engine have a look-they even tried to re invent the chain-a disaster-as the "chain" streches and causes the engine to run out of timing putting the engine warning light on as well. It makes little or no extra noise in this state but crops up as an electronic fault with the crank or cam sensor initially- be ware the repair in the UK will cost nearly £900 as the parts alone cost £400.

Maithri

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The chains are maintainance free-the lubrication is by the engine oil and the tension is set by automatic adjusters. Apart from regular oil changes no further action is needed, at the rate you change oil in SL at around 5000KM's the oil will hardly ever be an issue for the chain. In my view most of the current problems with timing chains are due to poor design, all the so called wonder boys had to do was go to the library and read up on old timing chain set ups most of which are still used very effectively by BMW and Mercedes engines, Why try to re invent the wheel-when the current one works very well!

If anyone has a nissan with a QG16 engine have a look-they even tried to re invent the chain-a disaster-as the "chain" streches and causes the engine to run out of timing putting the engine warning light on as well. It makes little or no extra noise in this state but crops up as an electronic fault with the crank or cam sensor initially- be ware the repair in the UK will cost nearly £900 as the parts alone cost £400.

Maithri

Thanks for the info. Yeh I've heard about the timing chain issues with QG16 and QG15's as well. After Renault took over nissan, most of the models came out of that factory were not up to the Nissan's standards! I was told by a mechanic who used to work for Nissan that some electronics for newer nissans come straigh from the Renualt, even has the Renault sticker on them; and also he said he would not recomend newer Nissans. But pre 2000 ones are considered 'bullet proof' because of very good build quality and reliability.

I think u missed my 2nd question. Does GA14DE and GA16DE got timing chain?

Cheers

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Good news for you....its timing chain!!

Thanks for confirming miniace! Really appreciate it...

I intend to take my car to A*W for a check-up soon, will ask them to "check" the status of the chain as my car has run ~120,000 already.

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Sorry, I will look up my workshop info tomorrow and post the details of GA14DE & GA16DE timing Chain or belt arrangement for you.

It may be easier to look at your engine, Normally a car with a timing belt has a plastic cover only to protect it. A chain drive will have a metal cover which is oil tight as the chain runs with engine oil as it's lubricant. The metal cover also insulates most of the noise from the chain.

Maithri.

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Maithri- On the topic of periodic changes. What if, the car has done only 30k kms, but the age of the car is 8 years old? (Assume that the timing belt is the same age)

My thinking is the same as tires- they say, don't buy anything older that 2-3 years old because of the ageing rubber. Thoughts?

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Hi, Gunat,

The slight difference is Tyres are mainly rubber, a timing belt is not rubber-it is a synthetic material re inforced with glass fibre etc. that's why you should not bend it or crimp it.

Having said that-some manufacturers recommend time as well as a distance for changing interval. So best to stick to the recommended interval time or distance whichever is sooner.

I totally agree with you about tyres-in the UK tyres older than 5 years cannot be sold lawfully, the rubber ages and cracks when exposed to sun light. Tyres have a date stamp on them so it's easy to check before buying. If your car has tyres older than 5 years try and change them to prevent a dangerous blow out.

Maithri.

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its a simple job for any decent mechanic. Better state the location and vehicle when asking a question like this.

If your asking this question in relation to the Nissan you own- dont bother- it aint got a timing belt. Just need to adjust the timing chain during oil changes

Can someone please give more detailed specifications about timing chain adjustments?

How to do it? Where? When?

I asked about this from my service station guys and they have never heard about it :action-smiley-060:

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Thanks Maithri- noted!

Can someone please give more detailed specifications about timing chain adjustments?

How to do it? Where? When?

I asked about this from my service station guys and they have never heard about it :action-smiley-060:

The timing belt change is explicitly noted in the User Manual for your car. Typically, most japanese cars say before 100k (kms). I've traditionally changed at 80-90k, to be on the (very) safe side.

Timing chain adjustments are best left to the agents, or professionals. Not a DIY job unless you have the know-how and tools.

Edited by gunat
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Most timing chains have automatic adjusters, unless you have a 1950's or earlier car. There is no provision for them to be adjusted in service. If the chain is noisy then the only real solution is to change it and the tensioner and also check the sprockets (cogged wheels) for excessive wear damage etc. If the chain is not noisy leave well alone as these are not normal service items and are only removed or replaced during a major engine overhaul.

Let sleeping dogs alone!

Maithri

Or "Kele yana nai arang sarama asse daganda epa"

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2 hours ago, Fdo Jo said:

Hellow,

I want to buy a vitz used 1000cc,but it has 97000km.i should change the belt.can i know how much to do all for repairing?

It has a timing chain. not a belt (assuming KR engine). Chains don't have the 100,000km replacement interval. So you don't need to worry about it.

Edited by Davy
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