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shirand

How to verify an auction sheet is original or fake?

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Hi,

We know these days there are a lot of scams going on in vehicle market, specially by many car sale guys (specially when selling unregistered cars imported from Japanese auctions).

How can we check whether an auction sheet shown by a car sale person is an original or a fake?

How to verify the details on that auction sheets are correct if it is the original sheet?

(We know we can verify whether JAAI Certificate is the original by sending an email to JAAI and verify the mileage. But I’m not familiar with auction sheets.)

Thanks for your valuable advice/ opinion on this. 

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get the chassis number from the car and check the auction sheet online. you'd have to pay a small amount but that's worth it. 

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Hi,

In case JAAI Certificate is not available instead of Bureau Veritas Certificate is available,

- Is this ok? 

- How to verify whether Bureau Veritas Certificate is the original?

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21 hours ago, shirand said:

Hi,

In case JAAI Certificate is not available instead of Bureau Veritas Certificate is available,

- Is this ok? 

- How to verify whether Bureau Veritas Certificate is the original?

Created in 1828, Bureau Veritas is a  global leader in Testing, Inspection and Certification (TIC).

Address - No. 34, Sanchi Arachchi Garden,
St' Sebastian Hill
COLOMBO 12

Telephone: + 94 11 4734325

Link - https://www.bureauveritas.com/worldWideLocationResultsForm?countryName=SRI%20LANKA&url=http://www.bureauveritas.co.in/home/worldwide-locations/south+asia+region/Sri+Lanka/

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Update:

I got the manual verification report from https://jpcenter.ru/

It's tally with the auction sheet given and seems there are no issues except a minor scratch in the body. Car's photos are ok. There is a small comment on comments section, when translate it Google translator shows it as "body kiss", don't know what is that ☺️ (attached that image for just reference marked with red squares).

While inspecting the car no doubts were there except,

- Bridgstone tyre edges had little hairline fractures like tiny cracks (can be ignored). The sale guy said those are due to the temperature difference in Japan's winter season and here while idle for few weeks

- All 4 wheels are alloy wheels and I noticed little bit of dust like rusts on the inner area of alloy wheels. He said that also normal. (I have noticed in this my previous car too, when it idles for few days this little rusty dust is coming and once washed they go away). Hope this also normal.

a.png

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It says body rasu kizu...I am not entirely sure..but rasu actually means lath..to describe something small and soft like a hair line fracture....so I suppose it means a hairline like scratch by "kissing" as in gently rubbing something.

Well..the tires do get those cracks by just sitting there...but what do you mean by hairline cracks on the the edge ?   Are they surface cracks slightly above the walls ? The Corolla wagon sits in one place from Winter to spring and summer...etc...for weeks but does not get any of those cracks. The only time I got cracks was my mother's RAV4 in Japan as it did not get used for 3-4 months at a time. SO I do not buy the whole change in weather story....the tires are NOT THAT weak.

You car is a 2017 car. The last owner in Japan probably traded it in for a different car as the shaken inspection was due. My guess is that the car was parked in one place for a long periods of time without being used for months at a time. So when it did get used it probably was a decent amount (kind of like my mom's RAV4). Yes..it is common for cars in Japan to have low mileages but what usually happens is that the car gets driven 20 or 30 km on average per week (so the car does not get parked for long period at a stretch).

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Thanks @iRage for explanations. 

Regarding tyre cracks - Those are not visible until you peep near the tyre and carefully observed. Yes they are slightly above the tyre walls - the angeled/ curved edge between the tyre wall and the outside Tyre surface. That area not touching the ground. 

But those crack like things are merely visible (tiny/ hairline like). I thought it’s due to the tyre is getting old (almost 3 years). 

(I saw this while when I try to determine the tyre wear out in order to guess the true mileage in case of odometer tampering. Tyre wear out ratio seems to be ok when I compare with my previous car’s tyres. Those also Bridgestone tyres and those were there for around 4 years with 40,000+ km riding. But didn’t experienced that tiny crack like things - may be I did not observe.)

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Attached a couple of pics of tyres to see those small cracks.

 

Tyre1.jpg

Tyre2.jpg

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5 hours ago, shirand said:

Attached a couple of pics of tyres to see those small cracks.

 

Tyre1.jpg

Tyre2.jpg

Yeah...that is what happens when the tire does not get used for a long time....so you car would have sat in the garage or parking lot for long periods of time. In fact a car constantly used with higher mileage would not have that problem.....it might have lesser threads but not the cracks. Those cracks are a shaken failure in Japan.

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ボデイ ウスキズ ~ light Body Scratch

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Thanks @vag2

@iRage - Hope I can use these tyres for another couple of years (~ 20,000 km more as current odo is just around 17,500 km) without a major risk/ issue?

BTW, when should I start my full service? Wait till the odo hits 20,000 km (will take slightly more than 2 months)?

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Posted (edited)

well..tires have an age limit as well..not just mileage based use. So..your tires are about three years old and have surface cracks due to lack of use...I would say change them and not wait for 20K (i.e. you cannot have a mileage base use on this...the tires are worn).Tires have a life span of a few years...I think it is 5 to 10 yeas depending on the type of tyre. 

The issue is these cracks come up because the rubber compound of the tire got compromised  due to lack of use. This is the first tell-tale signs of the tyres needing replacement (before thread running out). The compound needs to get periodically warmed up (i.e. used). When the compound gets compromised things like the surface hardening up can happen which can reduce grip. Hardening up can also lead to reduce flex in the tyre so punctures and air seeps can occur. This will also lead to poor control. Also, you do not know what has happened on the inside or inner side of the tyre. (which is the reason why it fails the shaken). Road noise can also get exaggerated. Now you do not have to run and get new tires tomorrow...but do not wait for 2+ years to get new ones. Plan on saving some money up and get them swapped as soon as it is feasible (hopefully not too long). Also, do not stress the wheels too much....

As for the service...get it done now...you do not know when the car was last serviced and how long the car has been just sitting there since the last service was done.  (if the tires got bad because of the change of weather from winter in Japan to summer in Sri Lanka...why do you think the oil would not ?).

Edited by iRage

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Hello friends,

I saw a car advertisement which was mentioned low mileage and higher auction grade, but is is fraud 

if someone wants more details

https://dreamcarbest.blogspot.com/2020/05/dont-get-panic-when-you-plan-to-buy-new.html

Rgds

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, thusharak340 said:

Hello friends,

I saw a car advertisement which was mentioned low mileage and higher auction grade, but is is fraud 

if someone wants more details

https://dreamcarbest.blogspot.com/2020/05/dont-get-panic-when-you-plan-to-buy-new.html

Rgds

 

A bit of guerilla marketing for your blog there buddy? No worries, its all good and I can get behind that, as its in public interest! :D 

Pretty decent advice overall really. And the pro-tip about checking the original auction sheet is a good one. Good job exposing it. 

A couple of quick questions to you and to any member who is knowledgeable on the below : 

  1. I thought changing the odometer / rolling back the mileage on cars was not easy since things went digital? And it was my understanding that if you did change the odometer the ECU would see that the mileage didn't tally with its internal count (as well as the number of start-stops stored) and throw an error code? So how do these crooked car-sale buggers pull off this fraud? 
  2. Also is there no authority or association of car dealers in Sri Lanka to complain to when we see fraud like this? Because its not individual consumers claiming they did a service when they didn't etc. This is seems to be done in an organized fashion by large carsales and in public interest we should complain or highlight frauds like this whenever we can shouldn't we? 
Edited by Kavvz

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3 hours ago, Kavvz said:

 

  1. I thought changing the odometer / rolling back the mileage on cars was not easy since things went digital? 

Nah it's easy as pie if you have the correct tools. Maximum cost is 5k. 

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3 hours ago, Kavvz said:

A bit of guerilla marketing for your blog there buddy? No worries, its all good and I can get behind that, as its in public interest! :D 

Pretty decent advice overall really. And the pro-tip about checking the original auction sheet is a good one. Good job exposing it. 

A couple of quick questions to you and to any member who is knowledgeable on the below : 

  1. I thought changing the odometer / rolling back the mileage on cars was not easy since things went digital? And it was my understanding that if you did change the odometer the ECU would see that the mileage didn't tally with its internal count (as well as the number of start-stops stored) and throw an error code? So how do these crooked car-sale buggers pull off this fraud? 
  2. Also is there no authority or association of car dealers in Sri Lanka to complain to when we see fraud like this? Because its not individual consumers claiming they did a service when they didn't etc. This is seems to be done in an organized fashion by large carsales and in public interest we should complain or highlight frauds like this whenever we can shouldn't we? 

1. No..some European cars had it...so maybe they still do. Japanese cars do not have it. They do not need it in Japan as the mileage gets recorded every year or every other year. Changing it is quite easy....there was a Fifth Gear episode where they showed a reformed crook changing the mileage in less than a minute :)

2. Well..there is an association of car sealers in Sri Lanka...but they are made up of the crooks who do these things. So..uh...bit of miss. The government's fraud and consumer protection agencies are not interested in the matter and the legal framework is simply not there to protect buyers from this.

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They even alter mileages of the CLA and C200 2019, sadly we have very poor examples as agents with a buttload of crap or indian waste being offered as brand new cars, hence these crooks have become the most well off society in this country.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hyaenidae said:

Nah it's easy as pie if you have the correct tools. Maximum cost is 5k. 

 

1 hour ago, iRage said:

1. No..some European cars had it...so maybe they still do. Japanese cars do not have it. They do not need it in Japan as the mileage gets recorded every year or every other year. Changing it is quite easy....there was a Fifth Gear episode where they showed a reformed crook changing the mileage in less than a minute :)

2. Well..there is an association of car sealers in Sri Lanka...but they are made up of the crooks who do these things. So..uh...bit of miss. The government's fraud and consumer protection agencies are not interested in the matter and the legal framework is simply not there to protect buyers from this.

Wow, I'm pretty shocked at how widespread this seems to be in the industry: I always distrusted smaller car sales that sold mostly older cars and kind of expect a bit of shady stuff from them; but based on the above it looks like even larger importers are being deceitful as well! Its eye-opening. (My belief was that since larger businesses have more to lose if their reputation is sullied, they generally tend to be honest; but I guess this goes to reinforce the belief that one should not trust any of these car dealers!)

I suppose this makes careful inspection and verifying information via the original auction documents even more important when buying from 3rd party importers...

Edited by Kavvz

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, tiv said:

They even alter mileages of the CLA and C200 2019, sadly we have very poor examples as agents with a buttload of crap or indian waste being offered as brand new cars, hence these crooks have become the most well off society in this country.

What no way! My experience and research is a couple of years old so I'm pretty out of touch with the newer technology that these crooks are using; but I thought newer Mercs and Beemers were pretty much tamper-proof?! 😳 Gosh!

Wow...I guess I need to hit-up the web and update myself. Crazy times! I guess "You learn something every day!" 

Edited by Kavvz

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7 hours ago, Kavvz said:

A bit of guerilla marketing for your blog there buddy? No worries, its all good and I can get behind that, as its in public interest! :D 

Pretty decent advice overall really. And the pro-tip about checking the original auction sheet is a good one. Good job exposing it. 

A couple of quick questions to you and to any member who is knowledgeable on the below : 

  1. I thought changing the odometer / rolling back the mileage on cars was not easy since things went digital? And it was my understanding that if you did change the odometer the ECU would see that the mileage didn't tally with its internal count (as well as the number of start-stops stored) and throw an error code? So how do these crooked car-sale buggers pull off this fraud? 
  2. Also is there no authority or association of car dealers in Sri Lanka to complain to when we see fraud like this? Because its not individual consumers claiming they did a service when they didn't etc. This is seems to be done in an organized fashion by large carsales and in public interest we should complain or highlight frauds like this whenever we can shouldn't we? 

Hi

I just wanted to educate people to get rid of such trouble, I also had an experience of it, I bought a car with very low mileage however after short running I realized that car engine was too exhaust & much oil consumed. thus I want to prevent such trouble to other people

Rgds

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2 hours ago, Kavvz said:

 

Wow, I'm pretty shocked at how widespread this seems to be in the industry: I always distrusted smaller car sales that sold mostly older cars and kind of expect a bit of shady stuff from them; but based on the above it looks like even larger importers are being deceitful as well! Its eye-opening. (My belief was that since larger businesses have more to lose if their reputation is sullied, they generally tend to be honest; but I guess this goes to reinforce the belief that one should not trust any of these car dealers!)

I suppose this makes careful inspection and verifying information via the original auction documents even more important when buying from 3rd party importers...

It was the larger ones who stated this in the first place way back in the 80s. In 1987ish my dad wanted to buy a car and all he could find were not very good cars...coincidentally mom went to Japan during that time on a work trip and dad went specifically to buy a car (got an EE80 for 280,000LKR after taxes). There after he started importing cars for a few of his friends and acquaintances. At that time it was mainly the big car dealers...famous one from Kandy/Mahagastota, then another one who had a showroom next to a girls'school in Bamba...plus one or two more. The smaller homegrown sellers were the more honest ones. In fact some of these large car salesmen were caught out in Japan when a famous exporter over here was caught welding up cars together as part of their reconditioning process. This is why the whole "recondition" certification was stopped back in the mid/late 80s.

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