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alpha17

CVT delayed and harsh engagement to R

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Hello guys,

So I noticed this issue in my Allion 260 recently. When I put the gear to R from any other gear (P or N), it takes 1-2 seconds to engage.During the delay car feels like it’s in neutral, but when it engages to R in a harsh manner, giving a jerk (like a jump). The transmission oil have been changed within 30,000km from the beginning, and now the car has only done around 12,000km after the change.What is the problem? When I went for Toyo Lan inspection, they denoted that the problem is with the engine mounts, but changed all 4 engine mounts today using genuine ones. Still the problem is there. What seems to be the problem? What should I do? Experts please give your opinions!

Thanks guys

p.s - After thinking more carefully I got these points about the issue.

  • The jerk's(jump) severity is depended on the rpm level. During a cold start, the engine rpm is high, so the jerk is severe. Today, after fixing the mounts , rpm was lowered to 400-500 due to the ecu reset caused by the battery removal. So the jerk was not there at that moment, but the late engagement was there. When the engine rpm became normal after returning to home, the jerk was there.
  • When I put the gear into R, during the delay, the engine behaves like it was put into Neutral or Park because the rpm goes a bit higher like those two gears.
  • D is completely normal. Haven't noticed any  abnormalities in D.
  • No drop in the economy
Edited by alpha17

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Couldn't it be the normal laggy behavior of the CVT, maybe you're just used to the crisp and instant gear change of the 4AT  you had :D

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Nah  CVT lag is only there when you floor it not when you put into R. :-) 

Hope you haven't noticed this behaviour before. Do you feel anything different when drive? Does the car engage D at cold start instantly? I also sometimes feel a small sensation that the gear is engaging if I put it to R in a non level surface. 

Edited by hrm

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The last oil change screwed up the cvt?wrong oil used?Too much oil put in?

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8 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

Couldn't it be the normal laggy behavior of the CVT, maybe you're just used to the crisp and instant gear change of the 4AT  you had :D

Nope mate. That's behaviour is 100% normal when driving. Only the engagement causes this issue.

Talking about that 4 speed autobox...good old 121:rolleyes:..yeah..I miss that fun!

5 hours ago, hrm said:

Nah  CVT lag is only there when you floor it not when you put into R. :-) 

Hope you haven't noticed this behaviour before. Do you feel anything different when drive? Does the car engage D at cold start instantly? I also sometimes feel a small sensation that the gear is engaging if I put it to R in a non level surface. 

As I remember there was a slight delay when I bought the car, but the issue was highlighted about 2-3 months ago. So I went for the Toyo Inspection and they told me the issue would be fixed by the mount replacement. Even after the replacement the issue is still there. But it varies from time to time. Sometimes the gear engages without any hiccups and sometimes the jerk makes the car jump even though I push the brake pedal all the way. 95% of the time the delay is there and it is accompanied by that jumping. But the D engages completely normally without any issue. I'm really confused...

3 hours ago, GayanR said:

The last oil change screwed up the cvt?wrong oil used?Too much oil put in?

I really have no idea about the last oil change since the previous owner had taken care of it. All the records are there of the oil changes from the first one and done from Au*o M*r*je. Previous owner is a relation of mine and he is a genuine person. So if the oil changes are recorded as done, Au*o M*r*je might have faked and charged him for doing the job.

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What did the toyo guys said after the mount replacement?Did they perform an engine scan?Au...mi..guys use many 3rd party additives when performing trans oil changes.Not sure if finally it screwed the cvt.Did you check the car brakes?Specially the rear rotor brakes.Just before going for any repairs try another oil change at toyo..lanka not auto...mi.

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6 minutes ago, GayanR said:

What did the toyo guys said after the mount replacement?Did they perform an engine scan?Au...mi..guys use many 3rd party additives when performing trans oil changes.Not sure if finally it screwed the cvt.Did you check the car brakes?Specially the rear rotor brakes.Just before going for any repairs try another oil change at toyo..lanka not auto...mi.

3rd party additives, ha, good one...

Did you see the video in which they were frigging pressure washing the INSIDE of a car door? :D they lamely claimed that there was vomit inside the car and every electrical component inside the door were removed but didn't have an answer when people asked who in their right mind would dismantle a door, remove electronics and reassemble the door again in order to clean the vomit off of it :D

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I guess you better do some health monitoring of the CVT probably from TL just to be sure that CVT is ok. 

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Relative, next door neighbour, doctor, professional, lady... whoever it is you brought your car from, it's a used car. You never know how they drove it. Being a genuine person doesn't necessarily make them a good car owner or driver.

So you need to do fluid changes as soon as you buy a used car. So do a CVT oil change and make sure you use the correct CVT oil. For pretty much any automatic transmission issue, changing the oil is first step. I'm surprised TL didn't do it. 

Having said that, delays and slight jerks are pretty normal on CVTs, especially when shifting to R when cold. This is quite apparent in Subarus and Hondas. Since yours got worse progressively and as you say, if it transmits a severe shock across the car, it certainly isn't normal. 

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51 minutes ago, Davy said:

Having said that, delays and slight jerks are pretty normal on CVTs, especially when shifting to R when cold. 

Ha! How about that, @hrm ! :D

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40 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

Ha! How about that, @hrm ! :D

I'm yet to experience that. In fact I haven't felt any jerks in my CVT (hope no aswaha katawaha :D ) But again as I mentioned above sometimes I do feel the gear is engaged when putting to R if you pay attention but it's not a jerk. Felt same in previous Vitz also.

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23 hours ago, hrm said:

I'm yet to experience that. In fact I haven't felt any jerks in my CVT (hope no aswaha katawaha :D ) But again as I mentioned above sometimes I do feel the gear is engaged when putting to R if you pay attention but it's not a jerk. Felt same in previous Vitz also.

Here comes the aswaha katawaha. I can feel the R gear engaging in a slope when the cvt has to work against the gravity on my 2008 allion. Also a little jerk on cruising when i put down the accelerator a little after taking off my foot completely off the pedal.

Odo is on 95k and maintained from the TL from the start on timely manner. Hope this is the normal behaviour of the cvt.

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1 hour ago, BlueRaiden said:

Here comes the aswaha katawaha. I can feel the R gear engaging in a slope when the cvt has to work against the gravity on my 2008 allion. Also a little jerk on cruising when i put down the accelerator a little after taking off my foot completely off the pedal.

Odo is on 95k and maintained from the TL from the start on timely manner. Hope this is the normal behaviour of the cvt.

Hopefully it will be normal then. But the little jerk thing is the one I'm about to find out. :)

Edited by hrm

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@hrm @Hyaenidae @GayanR @Davy Thanks buddies. I’ll check the gear oil level, condition and will change it. Now just sorting out the running repairs one by one. Cost 70k for buying the genuine mounts. Then ordered the shock absorbers from japan and would likely to cost me around 150k. For tyres (bridgestone) ready to buy anytime required for 70-75k. And finally the petrol filter change and a complete tune up waiting to be done. I’m really disappointed about the car(even all of them are running repairs). Seems to me that bought the car during the wrong time. My good old 121 never gave me this amount of trouble or running cost(even though I did all the above mentioned replacements). Above all that parking and keeping the car safe is a real burden for me. Reversing during night in areas with bad lighting is really hard due to the dark colour. Sometimes feel like getting something like a Mark X grx120 and a jap alto for daily run.

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35 minutes ago, alpha17 said:

@hrm @Hyaenidae @GayanR @DavyThanks Reversing during night in areas with bad lighting is really hard due to the dark colour. Sometimes feel like getting something like a Mark X grx120 and a jap alto for daily run.

2

What's wrong with the reversing camera?

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4 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

What's wrong with the reversing camera?

It works fine. But the camera cannot cover the corners. Due to maroon colour, using side mirrors is a bit tricky. Mostly in areas with bad lighting, the car also blends into the dark. Not a huge issue, but it’s there. And then keeping it clean...Just a 10km journey is more than enough to ruin a body wash.

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9 hours ago, alpha17 said:

It works fine. But the camera cannot cover the corners. Due to maroon colour, using side mirrors is a bit tricky. Mostly in areas with bad lighting, the car also blends into the dark. Not a huge issue, but it’s there. And then keeping it clean...Just a 10km journey is more than enough to ruin a body wash.

You'll get used to it :)

 

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14 hours ago, alpha17 said:

I’m really disappointed about the car(even all of them are running repairs). Seems to me that bought the car during the wrong time. My good old 121 never gave me this amount of trouble or running cost(even though I did all the above mentioned replacements).

Well I had to replace V belt, rear brake rotors, all 4 tyres. Then that infamous AC issue came and had to replace the AC compressor. Then came the full service at TL that costed around 65K. Shocks replacement is due. I guess these are pretty normal for the age and mileage of the car but didn't do any of these while having my Vitz  At least we are not typical stereotype Allion owners in SL. :)

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13 minutes ago, hrm said:

Well I had to replace V belt, rear brake rotors, all 4 tyres. Then that infamous AC issue came and had to replace the AC compressor. Then came the full service at TL that costed around 65K. Shocks replacement is due. I guess these are pretty normal for the age and mileage of the car but didn't do any of these while having my Vitz  At least we are not typical stereotype Allion owners in SL. :)

Rotors can be resurfaced no? What's the mileage?

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14 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

Rotors can be resurfaced no? What's the mileage?

77K. Sorry they actually changed the calipers not rotors.

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3 minutes ago, hrm said:

77K. Sorry they actually changed the calipers not rotors.

Caliper replacement at 77k? Why though?

Did you mean the caliper rubber kit (or the pads)?

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18 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

Caliper replacement at 77k? Why though?

Did you mean the caliper rubber kit (or the pads)?

They were making a pulsating noise when brake is applied. Maybe it's not even calipers. My knowledge on this is limited :)

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Why buy a second hand allion without expecting any repairs.Lot of allions are hacked more than those 121s.Unless it has a service history of all those belt changes,mount,shocks etc it's going to be lemon car.You got to be really lucky to get a well maintained allion.

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1 hour ago, hrm said:

Well I had to replace V belt, rear brake rotors, all 4 tyres. Then that infamous AC issue came and had to replace the AC compressor. Then came the full service at TL that costed around 65K. Shocks replacement is due. I guess these are pretty normal for the age and mileage of the car but didn't do any of these while having my Vitz  At least we are not typical stereotype Allion owners in SL. :)

OMG!! Yes buddy. I agree with you. We could've reduced those costs by going for cheap alternatives, instead of using genuine parts. The mounts were bought from TL and installed by a trustworthy and skilled mechanic who always did a great job to my cars. Shock absorbers  are ordered 2 days ago through my friend in japan. My tail light was damaged by the gate, but still waiting to be replaced using a japanese one. One was found but there is an unnoticeable crack in the plastic surround which would not affect its usage, but refused putting it. They are pretty rare here. Previous owner had pumped 95 and I also continued but still monthly cost for the fuel seems to be reduced by a significant amount.

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5 hours ago, GayanR said:

Why buy a second hand allion without expecting any repairs.Lot of allions are hacked more than those 121s.Unless it has a service history of all those belt changes,mount,shocks etc it's going to be lemon car.You got to be really lucky to get a well maintained allion.

I was expecting the repairs. Bought the car from a relation of mine. Went for the car due to the main reason that it was not hacked or met with major accidents (as almost all the cars I went to inspect had met with major accidents). Other than that I got the car for a bargain. Total service history from day 1, owners manuals, 2 smart keys are there. He even reduced 50k for a new set of tyres. I knew that those repairs would come but I was reluctant to let her go at that time. The problem is I had to extend my budget to the max, so I had no money set aside for the repairs to come. Now my financial side is a bit better, so I started sorting out the problems one by one. He had replaced the AC compressor, which is a known issue in those cars.

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