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sankaOne

Corolla121 or ES5/8 or Mazda 3 or GP1

Question

Hi guys!

I read many threads about above models but can't choose what is the best for value yet.I owned kelisa manual previously for 2 years and now looking for a car below 3M budget .I'm not a daily runner and looking for comfortable,reliable car with comparatively good on fuel .Please help me with this.Thanks ☺️

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On 1/4/2019 at 6:23 PM, GayanR said:

Definitely, those are rust buckets.Absolute shit of a paint job

 

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I strongly believe the Corolla is NOT good value for money in Sri Lanka. The Corolla is a nice, reliable, no frills car just like the others on your list and yes it does have the typical Toyota reliability and robustness of the past. However 99% of the Corollas are abused to death and because of Sri Lankan vehicle mythology they are unreasonably priced.

If you want value for money....my vote goes for the ES and the 3. They are as reliable and as nice as (or even nicer than) the Corolla, a tad more fun to drive than the Corolla, depending on the spec you even get a few more fancier gadgets than the Corolla. You could more easily find a better condition specimen at about the same or even lesser price than the Corolla. If you find a 121 with a proper service history and in good shape there is absolutely nothing wrong in getting one and I would say go for it...but finding one of those are really really hard to come by.

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1 hour ago, iRage said:

I strongly believe the Corolla is NOT good value for money in Sri Lanka. The Corolla is a nice, reliable, no frills car just like the others on your list and yes it does have the typical Toyota reliability and robustness of the past. However 99% of the Corollas are abused to death and because of Sri Lankan vehicle mythology they are unreasonably priced.

If you want value for money....my vote goes for the ES and the 3. They are as reliable and as nice as (or even nicer than) the Corolla, a tad more fun to drive than the Corolla, depending on the spec you even get a few more fancier gadgets than the Corolla. You could more easily find a better condition specimen at about the same or even lesser price than the Corolla. If you find a 121 with a proper service history and in good shape there is absolutely nothing wrong in getting one and I would say go for it...but finding one of those are really really hard to come by.

Corolla may not be worth for the money which is usually claimed for in our market. But there is a reason for that. Compared to cars in similar range, corolla has proven ( even in other countries) to be very reliable and durable in terms of engine, transmission, electrical/electronics and even body. Top on this in SL, there are ample spare parts island wide, so spare parts are not over priced. Being a very popular car, you get lot of places when it comes to repair and service. Many technicians/ mechanics for you to choose which avoids overpriced repair charges. In my experience it is a well designed car in terms of its mechanical, which can be easily dismantled without much hassle in repairs.  Even all the documentations ( service and repair manuals) are well organised.  Also it offers you a reasonable fuel economy if you are looking after the car correctly.  So even a car with over 200k would do fine as a brad new car if it has been looked after well.

Its correct that similar range other brands will give you more and better options, better comfort and better driving experience.  But they are not as equally corolla when it comes to what I said above. That's why their 2nd hand values are relatively less.  In fact this is same in other countries as well.  

Another point in  SL is, people tend to think that cars are some sort of investments where they can  get their money back at the end of the day.  This also has caused the corolla to get a higher price tag in second hand market and not all corolla users really wanted to go for a corolla. I know many people who has least knowledge of automobile tend to go for Toyotas since they are scared of costly repairs. Even my first car was a corolla and it didn't give me any trouble at all. If I had kept it with me, now I can easily sell it more than twice the price I paid it for in 2003.

Anyway, nothing will going to exist for ever on this earth, none of us...so don't bother too much on choosing cars.

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2 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Corolla may not be worth for the money which is usually claimed for in our market. ...... it for in 2003.

Anyway, nothing will going to exist for ever on this earth, none of us...so don't bother too much on choosing cars.

You missed my point...like I said... "The Corolla is a nice, reliable, no frills car just like the others on your list and yes it does have the typical Toyota reliability and robustness of the past."

But in Sri Lanka..it simply is not worth it because of the prices people ask for. Yes, the car is tried and proven but; decades later, after how most of the cars' multiple owners had taken care of them the "reliability" and "robustness" that you refer too also has diminished (use of cheap and easily accessible parts, maka baas work, etc..used by people who know nothing about cars and maintained it based on the service station Jonny's and down the road Ranjith baas's advice...) So the high price that people put on it because it is a Corolla is not justifiable when you consider the fact that the reliability and robustness actually has diminished and for a decade old car it will have (or not have) the same issues of its competitor models. Also, now cars actually do depreciate in SL....

Also, it is unfair to say that the Honda and the Mazda have not proven itself as they have and both the Civic and the 3 of the era have been as reliable and robust as the 121. In fact the Civics and 3s have faired a lot better than the Sunnaes. Its just that the masses in SL never knew about it because they followed the stories of the car salesmen and the baases. So they never got sold in ship loads over here; so you do not get cheap parts all over the country (which by itself is a good thing because owners had to go get proper parts).  In fact, I believe most of the Civics and 3s of the era have aged a lot better than the 121 because they were built with a slightly higher finish (dashboard materials, etc...)

As I said in the end if one can find a good, honest one then yes go for it..but finding one will be quite hard..also it would be a high price.

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6 hours ago, iRage said:

You missed my point...like I said... "The Corolla is a nice, reliable, no frills car just like the others on your list and yes it does have the typical Toyota reliability and robustness of the past."

But in Sri Lanka..it simply is not worth it because of the prices people ask for. Yes, the car is tried and proven but; decades later, after how most of the cars' multiple owners had taken care of them the "reliability" and "robustness" that you refer too also has diminished (use of cheap and easily accessible parts, maka baas work, etc..used by people who know nothing about cars and maintained it based on the service station Jonny's and down the road Ranjith baas's advice...) So the high price that people put on it because it is a Corolla is not justifiable when you consider the fact that the reliability and robustness actually has diminished and for a decade old car it will have (or not have) the same issues of its competitor models. Also, now cars actually do depreciate in SL....

Also, it is unfair to say that the Honda and the Mazda have not proven itself as they have and both the Civic and the 3 of the era have been as reliable and robust as the 121. In fact the Civics and 3s have faired a lot better than the Sunnaes. Its just that the masses in SL never knew about it because they followed the stories of the car salesmen and the baases. So they never got sold in ship loads over here; so you do not get cheap parts all over the country (which by itself is a good thing because owners had to go get proper parts).  In fact, I believe most of the Civics and 3s of the era have aged a lot better than the 121 because they were built with a slightly higher finish (dashboard materials, etc...)

As I said in the end if one can find a good, honest one then yes go for it..but finding one will be quite hard..also it would be a high price.

Well, your opinion doesn't represent what most people use to believe in SL.  Though you like or not, second hand price as well as reputation of Toyota is leading in SL. This is the ultimate truth. In terms of research and development ,corolla has gone into a greater depth for improving its reliability and efficiency.  I am not personally discriminating other brands, but people take decisions not simply based on the advertisements, not what next door is using but also on their personnel experience and budget.  Baseline reason is the second hand market price.  Its true that, baselines models of toyotas don't offer you all the options in that class. For a middle  class people they are OK with these essential features.  If someone really insist on extra comfort and options, yes there are many jap and euro models for a higher price tag. 

In my life I sold five toyotas without any trouble. 

"after how most of the cars' multiple owners had taken care of them the "reliability" and "robustness" that you refer too also has diminished (use of cheap and easily accessible parts, maka baas work, etc..used by people who know nothing about cars and maintained it based on the service station Jonny's and down the road Ranjith baas's advice...)"

What you are claiming above is not on a particular brand.  How do you say all the corollas have been repaired by makabasses. ??  This is brand independent.  Place of repair and the person is decided by the owners themselves. So it is up to the second hand buyer to get the vehicle checked by professionals before giving away the money.  I had bad experience with even so called with professionals and agents. But there are many genuine technicians and mechanics, who has enough knowledge, talents and experience in solving problems.  

"So the high price that people put on it because it is a Corolla is not justifiable when you consider the fact that the reliability and robustness actually has diminished and for a decade old car it will have (or not have) the same issues of its competitor models. Also, now cars actually do depreciate in SL...."

Its true, cars depreciate. But unfortunately due to the ever increasing import duties, depreciation of Ruppe and inflation, most people are after used cars. So the second hand market is not representing the exact value for money in SL context. It is very much opposite in Japan.  For an example I bought a 110 (auto 1997 make) back in 2004 for less than 1.0 million and sold for 1.3 m in 2007.  Now same car is having price tag of nearly 2.0 million. This is not representing the real value of the car rather how good our economy and standard of living. Only time when the second hand prices came down was before 2015 with slashed in taxes for hybrids import. after that prices never dropped.

"In fact, I believe most of the Civics and 3s of the era have aged a lot better than the 121 because they were built with a slightly higher finish (dashboard materials, etc...)"

It true. European models are much better in terms of finish and interior quality.  Unfortunately this has not been one of the principal parameters in determining the second hand market price in SL.

Finally, when it comes to hybrids models, toyotas have claimed less trouble ( software updates, recalls, transmission issues, clutch issues) compared to other brands top on a better fuel efficiency.  

Anyway I am not promoting a particular brand or model here, all the models have their inherent pros and kons.

Once you have taken a decision never bother to compare it with your neighbors, friends one.  ..Be satisfied..Buying a car is similar to getting a ..

 

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On 12/29/2018 at 6:40 PM, sankaOne said:

Hi guys!

I read many threads about above models but can't choose what is the best for value yet.I owned kelisa manual previously for 2 years and now looking for a car below 3M budget .I'm not a daily runner and looking for comfortable,reliable car with comparatively good on fuel .Please help me with this.Thanks ☺️

If you are really concern in comfortability, go for a Nissan.

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Well..anyone who knows me that I am a Toyota-fan....I have have owned about 14 Toyotas :D 

Again...I am not saying that the Corolla is a bad car....in fact its down fall and what makes it a not so value for money (which is what the OP asked in the first place) is the fact that it was well built and even no matter how much abuse it is being put through it will keep running.

Also, if you read my response with some proper thought rather than a pre-disposed defense; you will see I explained why the Hondas and the Mazdas tend to be a bit better maintained.

and yes....if the OP wants comfort the Nissans are much better as the ride is much more cloudy :) 

 

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1 hour ago, iRage said:

Well..anyone who knows me that I am a Toyota-fan....

Again...I am not saying that the Corolla is a bad car....in fact its down fall and what makes it a not so value for money (which is what the OP asked in the first place) is the fact that it was well built and even no matter how much abuse it is being put through it will keep running.

Also, if you read my response with some proper thought rather than your pre-disposed defense arguments; you will see I explained why the Hondas and the Mazdas tend to be a bit better maintained.

and yes....if the OP wants comfort the Nissans are much better as the ride is much more cloudy :) 

 

 you will see I explained why the Hondas and the Mazdas tend to be a bit better maintained."  where ??🙄

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So I think I should share my opinion about Corolla 121 since I have closer to 7 years of ownership experience. I have driven an ES5 clocked around 170,000kms and a 3 clocked around 100,000km. 

I bought the 121 when it was clocked just 93,000km and now she's closer to 154,000km. I am nearly 80kms away from Colombo and I never had any problem regarding maintenance and sourcing parts. Other than usual running repairs, the car never came up with an issue. Still the car drives like it did on the first day I bought it. When it comes to reliability, Toyota is the best.

When driving, the handling is considerably better than Axios, Allions and Premios, but the Hondas and Mazdas feels a bit more connected to the road and sharper to handle. You can feel the difference when you sit in a Honda, as the driving position feels sporty and the seats provide better side support. Also Honda seats are bit on the firm side. But the Corolla makes you feel like you are sitting on a comfortable chair. The Corolla is much more refined and isolated from the outside world. Also the suspension handles potholes and bumps much better. On the other hand both the 3 and ES5 felt way less refined for me. The ES5 i drove had Dunlops but the road noise is pretty annoying. Ride is okish until you hit a pothole or a bump, since the car is noticeably bumpier than Corolla on bad roads. It is the same story with the 3 also. But both of them gives a sporty driving experience than the 121.

All the three models have equal amount of power produced by the engines, while both 3 and ES5 is about 100kg heavier than the 121.When accelerating Corolla is slightly better. When it comes to fuel economy, yeah you know the answer.

A Corolla 121 is not a miracle machine by any means. It's just more suited for Sri Lankans who seeks economy and reliability. While the car is much more refined and comfortable than a Honda or Mazda, it will make you feel like you are just another guy on the road. On the other hand Mazda and Honda would make you a different person.

If you need further details P.M me

Cheers

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Also I forgot to mention that most of the Corollas for sale have been beaten to death and the with tampered mileages you might have to be extremely careful when choosing one.I also had plans to go for a 2007 Allion around 4.2million and gave up the idea due to bad examples.Better to go for a known car.Always request for service records and eco test reports.Sometimes you can assume that the mileage is faulty even by looking at the cars condition.Finally I decided to go for a 2013 Allion by the end of next month even I have to stretch my budget to the max, because the car is owned by a close relation of mine.So wish you good luck on finding a nice ride.

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The Toyota will fulfill all your requirements. In terms of “more car for your money “ there are better alternatives like the newer Civics , Lancers etc. IMO the best value will be sometime like a GP1 but it will be difficult to find a good example with a decent battery for your budget. 

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19 hours ago, alpha17 said:

So I think I should share my opinion about Corolla 121 since I have closer to 7 years of ownership experience. I have driven an ES5 clocked around 170,000kms and a 3 clocked around 100,000km. 

I bought the 121 when it was clocked just 93,000km and now she's closer to 154,000km. I am nearly 80kms away from Colombo and I never had any problem regarding maintenance and sourcing parts. Other than usual running repairs, the car never came up with an issue. Still the car drives like it did on the first day I bought it. When it comes to reliability, Toyota is the best.

When driving, the handling is considerably better than Axios, Allions and Premios, but the Hondas and Mazdas feels a bit more connected to the road and sharper to handle. You can feel the difference when you sit in a Honda, as the driving position feels sporty and the seats provide better side support. Also Honda seats are bit on the firm side. But the Corolla makes you feel like you are sitting on a comfortable chair. The Corolla is much more refined and isolated from the outside world. Also the suspension handles potholes and bumps much better. On the other hand both the 3 and ES5 felt way less refined for me. The ES5 i drove had Dunlops but the road noise is pretty annoying. Ride is okish until you hit a pothole or a bump, since the car is noticeably bumpier than Corolla on bad roads. It is the same story with the 3 also. But both of them gives a sporty driving experience than the 121.

All the three models have equal amount of power produced by the engines, while both 3 and ES5 is about 100kg heavier than the 121.When accelerating Corolla is slightly better. When it comes to fuel economy, yeah you know the answer.

A Corolla 121 is not a miracle machine by any means. It's just more suited for Sri Lankans who seeks economy and reliability. While the car is much more refined and comfortable than a Honda or Mazda, it will make you feel like you are just another guy on the road. On the other hand Mazda and Honda would make you a different person.

If you need further details P.M me

Cheers

yes exactly correct on ;

" but the Hondas and Mazdas feels a bit more connected to the road and sharper to handle" 

Also Honda seats are bit on the firm side. But the Corolla makes you feel like you are sitting on a comfortable chair. "

" suspension handles potholes and bumps much better."

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On 12/29/2018 at 7:40 PM, sankaOne said:

Hi guys!

I read many threads about above models but can't choose what is the best for value yet.I owned kelisa manual previously for 2 years and now looking for a car below 3M budget .I'm not a daily runner and looking for comfortable,reliable car with comparatively good on fuel .Please help me with this.Thanks ☺️

Ok I'm a bit late on this one - if it were my money I'd avoid the 121 like the plague ...why? I did a massive car hunt island wide 4 years back and the most abused, rigged, horrible conditioned cars I came across were 121's.... you have a high chance of falling for a proper lemon. 

I have a soft spot for the mazda 3 but the Civic is also a very well rounded car. 

Now then the most left field choice here might also be a good one - I've used a Fit GP1 for 3 years (sold it ) and it was a true all round car for one it's newer, has a lot of bells and whistles like cruise control etc. and it's spacious as hell where you can carry cart loads of stuff in it. There are two big issues - 1. The battery 2. The oil burn issue.  If you read the threads on the GP1 you will notice that a specific series of VIN #'s are affected if you get a car not in that range and get the battery tested  you're looking at a car that is less than a decade old - due to the above issues generally the prices are a bit low so you can get a good deal.  

While you're at it also consider the non-hybrid FIT (GE6) that's a real value for money car. 

On 12/30/2018 at 9:57 PM, trish_auto said:

In my life I sold five toyotas without any trouble. 

a bit OT but a general comment - I've not owned too many vehicles but here's a breakdown of the 3 vehicles that I have sold and the time it took for selling

1. Perodua Kelisa (sold in 2015) - sold within 4 hours of ad being published online. 50,000 LKR below advertised price

2. Honda Fit (sold in 2018) - sold within 12 hours of ad being published (ad published on an evening buyer came the next morning) 40,000 LKR below advertised price.

3. Nissan Sunny (FB14) (Sold in 2015) - sold after 3 weeks of advertising in A/L, quick site and the newspapers for 100,000 below advertised price.

oh and btw a friend of mine has been trying to sell  2004 Vios for over 2 months now. 

So you see it's not always the "market " cars that get sold nowadays - the car market has changed a bit recently people tend to go for newer non mainstream cars than settle for ancient relics that have met half a dozen accidents, have an ac compressor from a different model , on open books and been re-painted by Paint basses using dulux weathershield. 

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33 minutes ago, matroska said:

Ok I'm a bit late on this one - if it were my money I'd avoid the 121 like the plague ...why? I did a massive car hunt island wide 4 years back and the most abused, rigged, horrible conditioned cars I came across were 121's.... you have a high chance of falling for a proper lemon. 

I have a soft spot for the mazda 3 but the Civic is also a very well rounded car. 

Now then the most left field choice here might also be a good one - I've used a Fit GP1 for 3 years (sold it ) and it was a true all round car for one it's newer, has a lot of bells and whistles like cruise control etc. and it's spacious as hell where you can carry cart loads of stuff in it. There are two big issues - 1. The battery 2. The oil burn issue.  If you read the threads on the GP1 you will notice that a specific series of VIN #'s are affected if you get a car not in that range and get the battery tested  you're looking at a car that is less than a decade old - due to the above issues generally the prices are a bit low so you can get a good deal.  

While you're at it also consider the non-hybrid FIT (GE6) that's a real value for money car. 

a bit OT but a general comment - I've not owned too many vehicles but here's a breakdown of the 3 vehicles that I have sold and the time it took for selling

1. Perodua Kelisa (sold in 2015) - sold within 4 hours of ad being published online. 50,000 LKR below advertised price

2. Honda Fit (sold in 2018) - sold within 12 hours of ad being published (ad published on an evening buyer came the next morning) 40,000 LKR below advertised price.

3. Nissan Sunny (FB14) (Sold in 2015) - sold after 3 weeks of advertising in A/L, quick site and the newspapers for 100,000 below advertised price.

oh and btw a friend of mine has been trying to sell  2004 Vios for over 2 months now. 

So you see it's not always the "market " cars that get sold nowadays - the car market has changed a bit recently people tend to go for newer non mainstream cars than settle for ancient relics that have met half a dozen accidents, have an ac compressor from a different model , on open books and been re-painted by Paint basses using dulux weathershield. 

except for the issues "1. The battery 2. The oil burn issue." , GP1 is a value for money. 👍

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Yes I totally agree with the fact that finding a good 121 is extremely hard.Even today I went to inspect a 2013 Allion on a car sale,just to have a rough idea about the one I’m going to buy next month.The car had 79000km on the odo,but the leather of the steering shows the signs of heavy usage.But the seller has painted the interior silver door handles and they look new.Even the plastic scuff plates had no signs of usage.The sales guy have put polythene covers on the steering wheel and gear knob to make it look like a new ride.So I’m talking about a 2013 made car.121 is nearly 2 decades old now,but still there are many carefully used ones.A close relation of mine also wanted to buy a 121 after seeing mine in 2014.So he got a very rare chance.A first owner car with 67,000km done,G grade,champaign gold in J plates.The car was in pristine condition.It was hard for me to believe at that time,but now due to careless usage the car starts to show it’s age.So if you are going for a 121 make sure to find a one with all the service records even the mileage is high.

I forgot to mention about the GP1. It’s really a nice car to drive and ticks all your boxes. But if you plan to do less kms per month,its better to avoid hybrids.Other than the oil burning issue and battery issue,for me ground clearance is a bit of a problem.

When deciding about the reselling, it is really hard to guess.Usually in SL market Toyotas are easier to sell.But sometimes that’s not true.Two guys I know had 2017 Premios.One is pearl white with 50,000km on clock.Advertised in quick sale site for 7.26 mil and sold in two days.The other one is a 2017 wine red with 30,000km on clock.I has been up for sale for nearly 2 months (7.2mil)and still not sold.Also there are two Civic FD1s for sale in quick sale site for nearly 1.5 months still with all the records and stuff.One FD1 was quoted as 4.2mil at the begining and now the price has been reduced to 3.7mil,but still up for sale.

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Dude buying a mazda that old is certain death.

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7 hours ago, GayanR said:

Dude buying a mazda that old is certain death.

Well, one of my friend is using a mazda familia 323, imported b/n. It is a real workhorse 🐎. Using for many years without major complaints. Seems a very reliable car. What you think about it ? If you have any experience please share with us.

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3 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Well, one of my friend is using a mazda familia 323, imported b/n. It is a real workhorse 🐎. Using for many years without major complaints. Seems a very reliable car. What you think about it ? If you have any experience please share with us.

i have been using a 323 (YOM 2000 ,ZM-DE engine, MT) for 11 years (from 2007). still it is my primary car.

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10 hours ago, GayanR said:

Dude buying a mazda that old is certain death.

We had a ford laser from new which is essentially a Mazda and much older than what OP is talking about. When we sold it after 7 years it had 217000 kms. Only things we did was regular maintenance (service and suspension components) . The engine was never touched and still ran like new when it was sold. It was also well put together , no noticeable rattles even in that mileage. 

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6 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Well, one of my friend is using a mazda familia 323, imported b/n. It is a real workhorse 🐎. Using for many years without major complaints. Seems a very reliable car. What you think about it ? If you have any experience please share with us.

we had a couple of mazda 323's (1999/2000) in our office - and they just kept running and running ( services are done routinely)  they held up really well by the time they had done well over 300,000 km. 

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3 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

We had a ford laser from new which is essentially a Mazda and much older than what OP is talking about. When we sold it after 7 years it had 217000 kms. Only things we did was regular maintenance (service and suspension components) . The engine was never touched and still ran like new when it was sold. It was also well put together , no noticeable rattles even in that mileage. 

Was this a Jap make ? Because one of my friends use to drive a ford laser which was having a odo of 200k +.  No issue at all except running repairs. It had a unique beat. 

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3 hours ago, trish_auto said:

Was this a Jap make ? Because one of my friends use to drive a ford laser which was having a odo of 200k +.  No issue at all except running repairs. It had a unique beat. 

Yes Japanese, 1600CC Manual. Pickup was really good too ! 

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On 1/2/2019 at 6:28 AM, trish_auto said:

Well, one of my friend is using a mazda familia 323, imported b/n. It is a real workhorse 🐎. Using for many years without major complaints. Seems a very reliable car. What you think about it ? If you have any experience please share with us.

No I was talking about the later one.mazda 3.

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1 hour ago, GayanR said:

No I was talking about the later one.mazda 3.

Would you like to explain why? coz, here i'm an owner of a Mazda 323 for a decade which is truly worth every penny that was invested on it and two of my colleagues followed me and purchased an Axela and a 3 a year after my purchase and still holding on to them for nearly 9 years. Still no concerns for us to get rid of them though.. Happy owners all the way. for the first time i'm hearing a negative comment on a Mazda 3 here actually 😊

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On 1/1/2019 at 11:24 PM, GayanR said:

Dude buying a mazda that old is certain death.

I thought mazdas are quite reliable workhorses (except for rust issues that is... any place that retains moisture seems to lead to rust on Mazdas of that vintage)

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