TOYOTA PREMIO VS. AUDI A3

[Stryker]

Hello,

trying to choose between a  2018 Toyota Premio G Superior and a 2018 Audi A3 TFSI Sedan, and needs some clarifications and comparisons between both.  (both are almost the same price)

1. Speed?  because the Audi comes with a tiny 3 cyl - 1.0 liter engine , How is the pick up? Not expecting sports car performance, but should be able to overtake in our roads unlike a Wagon R.

2. How is maintenance? Cost of service, and spare parts availability? Toyota should win this one easily but your thoughts and opinions. Also recommend a good place to service both.

3. Comfort and overall features?

4. Fuel consumption and resale value? Don't care about either of these, but would like to know what the general consensus is, just for the sake of comparing.

Also there is a Hatchback version of the A3 Sedan called a A3 Sportback. The specs are almost identical, but it is almost 1mil cheaper than the sedan. any thoughts?

[TheFlyingFox]

7 minutes ago, Crosswind said:

Rubbish 

The user manuals of Euros specify the service intervals and oil types for both standard driving conditions and rough driving conditions. 

As I recall, you owned a Fiesta, if you ever bothered to read the user manual, you should know that. 

As I recall it specified only the type of oil (viscosity) for the condition, not how much it can run from it. One of our company directors use a Discovery, although the book said 15k intervals after about 50k mileage he started to change it every 10k.  Anyway it's certainly up to the individual , changing oil a bit early is not going to hurt anything, especially in this climate. 

[Hyaenidae]

20 minutes ago, Crosswind said:

Rubbish 

The user manuals of Euros specify the service intervals and oil types for both standard driving conditions and rough driving conditions. 

As I recall, you owned a Fiesta, if you ever bothered to read the user manual, you should know that. 

Most Jap cars recommend changing oil (Lube service) at 15000kms if driven under regular conditions and 5000-7500kms intervals if driven under rough driving conditions.

Audi Canada website recommends doing a  service every 15k kms too. (15k kms - regular service, 30k kms - major service) this is if the vehicle is driven under regular conditions - as for the rough driving conditions, they have mentioned

"NOTE: The intervals shown in this table are based on vehicles operating under normal conditions. In case of severe conditions, such as extremely low temperatures, excessive dust, etc., it is necessary for certain operations to be carried out in between the given intervals."

However, there's no fixed schedule for rough driving conditions - what's the usual recommendation for euro cars driven under rough conditions?

https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/customer-area/maintenance/schedule-maintenance/service-schedule.html

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Hyaenidae

[Hyaenidae]

4 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Will PM you in the evening , meeting my friend 

 

 

 

EDIT : Hi Mate, Please find the attached invoices. He had given me a overall monthly figure which was 13k. Each service varies between 6k ,9k, 13k, 14k, 16k. 

Looping @peugeot407@iRage

Thanks for sharing!

Edited October 17, 2018 by Hyaenidae

[vag2]

The Toyota needs 13k every 5000km? What is the Engine?

He doesnt do CVT oil change every 30000km,which is quite expensive but NOT necessary for Euros(AT,MT).

Edited October 17, 2018 by vag2

[TheFlyingFox]

26 minutes ago, ajm said:

talking from my experience servicing at the agent. They DO consider the mentioned factors relevant for our market for original imports.

I don't have much trust on agents when it comes to these matters mate, I used to have a Daihatsu Copen. Fully maintained at the agents. When I brought it in, although the handbook said specifically to use 5W-30 oil the gentleman at the agent told me to put 0W-20. Why I asked " Its good for our climate condition". Little that he knows that a turbo engine heats a lot more than a NA engine, higher the viscosity, the oil would handle high temps better. Along with our hellish condition using a lower viscosity oil can break at high temps and ruin the engine in the long run, the turbo unit will suffer first with insufficient lubrication. 

Even for a stingray turbo the recommended oil is 5W-30 and for the non turbo variant its 0W-20. 

[TheFlyingFox]

7 minutes ago, vag2 said:

The Toyota needs 13k every 5000km? What is the Engine?

He doesnt do CVT oil change every 30000km,which is quite expensive but NOT necessary for Euros(AT,MT).

Mate, most Euros like Jaguars and Peugeots etc stated their auto boxes have life long oil which doesn't need to be changed. Look where they ended. They might survive in their respective climates but not here. 

[kmeeg]

9 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Wow , a member stated that comparisons like this are done only in Sri Lanka. I guess it’s also the only country where European cars are easier to maintain than the Japanese ?

For sure that’s news to me. All this time I was thinking Euro cars are expensive to maintain..

I guess these statistics published by consumer reports and others are not applicable for our country I guess.

 

[ajm]

32 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

I don't have much trust on agents when it comes to these matters mate, I used to have a Daihatsu Copen. Fully maintained at the agents. When I brought it in, although the handbook said specifically to use 5W-30 oil the gentleman at the agent told me to put 0W-20. Why I asked " Its good for our climate condition". Little that he knows that a turbo engine heats a lot more than a NA engine, higher the viscosity, the oil would handle high temps better. Along with our hellish condition using a lower viscosity oil can break at high temps and ruin the engine in the long run, the turbo unit will suffer first with insufficient lubrication. 

Even for a stingray turbo the recommended oil is 5W-30 and for the non turbo variant its 0W-20. 

Not sure about UK,French ones, but the Audi agents (which is the topic here) are quite knowledgeable when it comes to the models they import. To be safe I would preferably buy from them and if the price and after-sales support difference to a gray import is tooo high, buy a gray import which model is released for our market by the agents.

Edited October 17, 2018 by ajm

[TheFlyingFox]

7 minutes ago, ajm said:

Not sure about UK,French ones, but the Audi agents (which is the topic here) are quite knowledgeable when it comes to the models they import. To be safe I would preferably buy from them and if the price and after-sales support difference to a gray import is tooo high, buy a gray import which model is released for our market by the agents.

Agreed , also gray imports mainly come from the UK. Tailored for their climate. Time will only tell how they will fare in ours. Even if you buy a model which is released by the agents , like a Q2 for example, they won’t allow you to service it at their premises. 

[TheFlyingFox]

16 minutes ago, kmeeg said:

For sure that’s news to me. All this time I was thinking Euro cars are expensive to maintain..

I guess these statistics published by consumer reports and others are not applicable for our country I guess.

 

Not our country.  These reports , what Srilankan people think , their expertise and experience , none of them matters in this forum. The common man is frowned upon, rude and sarcastic at times for people who want answers, a good old doctor who buys a premio or axio for his liking is a fool and the list goes on and on, instead the doc should think about something which the forum likes. That said there are few others who are genuinely interested in helping one another without being biased or being judgemental with a nice touch of humor if I should add. This is what I have come across in my short tenure over here ?. Don’t know if I will be expelled now ?

[vag2]

10 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Not our country.  These reports , what Srilankan people think , their expertise and experience , none of them matters in this forum.

The common man is frowned upon, rude and sarcastic at times for people who want answers, a good old doctor who buys a premio or axio for his liking is a fool?

Maintenance costs vary a lot depending on the country. Referring a  list from USA to make conclusions about SL is not a good idea. Many Euro users on the other hand have confirmed that it does not cost an arm and leg to service a Euro here in the long term.

A good,old doctor can buy whatever he wants,in most cases he doesnt even have experience of driving a Euro. On the other hand if you are not sure, you can go to a car park of any big private hospital in the evening, you can count the ratio of Euro to Japs in the Doctor parking lot.

[Crosswind]

1 hour ago, Hyaenidae said:

Most Jap cars recommend changing oil (Lube service) at 15000kms if driven under regular conditions and 5000-7500kms intervals if driven under rough driving conditions.

Audi Canada website recommends doing a  service every 15k kms too. (15k kms - regular service, 30k kms - major service) this is if the vehicle is driven under regular conditions - as for the rough driving conditions, they have mentioned

"NOTE: The intervals shown in this table are based on vehicles operating under normal conditions. In case of severe conditions, such as extremely low temperatures, excessive dust, etc., it is necessary for certain operations to be carried out in between the given intervals."

However, there's no fixed schedule for rough driving conditions - what's the usual recommendation for euro cars driven under rough conditions?

https://www.audi.ca/ca/web/en/customer-area/maintenance/schedule-maintenance/service-schedule.html

 

There's no 'usual recommendation' for any car. What Ford says, is to service every 20,000km under normal circumstances and every 10,000km under 'severe duty conditions'. Severe duty conditions are also listed on the service manual.

'Warm countries with temperatures constantly above 30-degrees' and 'frequent use in stop-go traffic' is considered as severe driving conditions

 

1 hour ago, TheFlyingFox said:

As I recall it specified only the type of oil (viscosity) for the condition, not how much it can run from it. One of our company directors use a Discovery, although the book said 15k intervals after about 50k mileage he started to change it every 10k.  Anyway it's certainly up to the individual , changing oil a bit early is not going to hurt anything, especially in this climate. 

Learn to read!

 

[TheFlyingFox]

1 hour ago, Crosswind said:

Learn to read!

 

Alright, so I made the mistake of forgetting about the handbook,  but what I have stated is in line with your book. In this climate to have a shorter oil change interval. I didn't need a book to tell me that, its common sense. The book of the swift says to run 10k on full synthetic, being a JDM it wont have a clause as the Ford but I change it on a shorter interval anyway

 

Btw do you have the one which came with the Sunroof and 17" wheels ? Loved that car back in the day but couldn't afford it. 

 

Anyone else got tired of the match after the hat trick ?

Edited October 17, 2018 by TheFlyingFox

[peugeot407]

6 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Will PM you in the evening , meeting my friend 

 

 

 

EDIT : Hi Mate, Please find the attached invoices. He had given me a overall monthly figure which was 13k. Each service varies between 6k ,9k, 13k, 14k, 16k. 

Looping @peugeot407@iRage

Thanks for sharing.

1. In your post, you mentioned that your friend replaced air filter, oil filter and oil for 13000/=  which is misleading. Air filter has not been changed.
2. The service which was charged Rs. 6000 is an intermediate labor-free (every third consecutive service) service without changing the oil filter. 
3. You have excluded the VAT charged on this invoice. 
4. I am just sharing the prices of a Jaguar 2200CC Diesel service cost at agents. Please note that you can't compare the service cost of a  diesel JAG with a Toyota Corolla because service costs of a diesel are inherently expensive compared to a petrol, considering the larger engine size which requires more Oil and JAGs are expensive compared to German counterparts.

[iRage]

6 hours ago, kush said:

Honda Service at agents for CRV 2013, maintained through out them as per their schedule

Rs 12-13 K for oil and filter every 5000k/ 6 months, add Rs. 8k if air filter is replaced, ATF was around Rs. 15K as i remember

Nothing was replaced for 40,000 km.

Now in to a Euro each service 15000k / 1 year, around Rs. 60K

Approximately 1.5 times

 

Uhh..okay...so for one year the services for the CR-V was 24K ? (excluding air filter and ATF change) presuming two were done at 500km/6 month intervals. Now your Euro is 15K per year ?

[TheFlyingFox]

29 minutes ago, peugeot407 said:

Thanks for sharing.

1. In your post, you mentioned that your friend replaced air filter, oil filter and oil for 13000/=  which is misleading. Air filter has not been changed.
2. The service which was charged Rs. 6000 is an intermediate labor-free (every third consecutive service) service without changing the oil filter. 
3. You have excluded the VAT charged on this invoice. 
4. I am just sharing the prices of a Jaguar 2200CC Diesel service cost at agents. Please note that you can't compare the service cost of a  diesel JAG with a Toyota Corolla because service costs of a diesel are inherently expensive compared to a petrol, considering the larger engine size which requires more Oil and JAGs are expensive compared to German counterparts.

No problem ? 

My bad I was also under the impression that it costed 13k but he was giving me a overall figure. The labor will come down overall as TL offers him labor free services as you mentioned. I took photos of the actual invoice and that was it, I didn’t see a vat component. The cost for the Jag is impressive , I think it being British is more economical than the Germans. 

[iRage]

3 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Mate, most Euros like Jaguars and Peugeots etc stated their auto boxes have life long oil which doesn't need to be changed. Look where they ended. They might survive in their respective climates but not here. 

Dude....if you had ever checked the service manuals/bulletins of the JDM CVTs they too have life time service cycles. In fact for the Premio/Allion/RAV4/etc...CVT box the Japanese service schedule only indicates an inspection at 100K km and replace only if required. The Toyota CVTs are theoretically non-serviceable units (which really is not the case as well all see it).

 

38 minutes ago, peugeot407 said:

Fully synthetic oil 6L = 11963

1L = 1994 (approx)

Corolla's mineral oil at the agent was 1,164 per 1L...

So pretty much the same difference you would expect between decent mineral and fully synthetic oil...so the considering the oil type used and the volume it is expected.

[iRage]

2 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Not our country.  These reports , what Srilankan people think , their expertise and experience , none of them matters in this forum. The common man is frowned upon, rude and sarcastic at times for people who want answers, a good old doctor who buys a premio or axio for his liking is a fool and the list goes on and on, instead the doc should think about something which the forum likes. That said there are few others who are genuinely interested in helping one another without being biased or being judgemental with a nice touch of humor if I should add. This is what I have come across in my short tenure over here ?. Don’t know if I will be expelled now ?

I guess you refer to yourself as one of those "unbiased" and "non-judgmental" members who help others  (you are just judgmental about the brands and where they are manufactured)

Like I have always said..you are pigeon holing yourself and you miss the point. None of the members look down on doctors, permit holders, etc..for buying a Premio/Allion, Axio, etc...if that is the car they want. We do get brash and harsh about people who buy these cars:

a. just because they want to follow the herd based on myths ranging from fairy-tales on fuel figures, repair/maintenance costs, reliability, etc....(propagated by car salesmen, and short sighted motor/petrol heads)

b. just to show off and impress the neighbors and for peer acceptance

Edited October 17, 2018 by iRage

[TheFlyingFox]

15 minutes ago, iRage said:

Dude....if you had ever checked the service manuals/bulletins of the JDM CVTs they too have life time service cycles. In fact for the Premio/Allion/RAV4/etc...CVT box the Japanese service schedule only indicates an inspection at 100K km and replace only if required. The Toyota CVTs are theoretically non-serviceable units (which really is not the case as well all see it).

 

Fully synthetic oil 6L = 11963

1L = 1994 (approx)

Corolla's mineral oil at the agent was 1,164 per 1L...

So pretty much the same difference you would expect between decent mineral and fully synthetic oil...so the considering the oil type used and the volume it is expected.

You have a tendency to shoot like a machine gun without a target. Try to be more of a sniper ?I was answering his question when he said that euros don’t need to change oil necessarily when the Japanese do and much more expensive.  Euro auto tranny oil is cheap is it ? Especially for those advance ZF units ? 

[TheFlyingFox]

36 minutes ago, iRage said:

I guess you refer to yourself as one of those who help others

Like I have always said..you are pigeon holing yourself and you miss the point. None of the members look down on doctors permit holders, etc..for buying a Premio/Allion, Axio, etc...if that is the car they want. We do get brash and hash about people who buy these cars just because they want to follow the herd based on myths (propagated by car salesmen, and short sighted motor/petrol heads) and also those who buy these cars just to show off and impress the neighbors. 

My goodness no ?. I do not wish to take this on with you as all you can do is point -> shoot. If you really think that majority of the people fall into a and b then I really do feel sorry for you. You are the authority of automobiles in Sri Lanka and a and b should change everything accordingly ?. 

 

Also You should know that I have absolutely nothing personal against you , exchanging words on a online forum

 

 

Edit : being judgmental on a product and being judgmental on people are completely two different things. Oh anyway , what is the point of all this , we live a short life , Good night. ? 

Edited October 17, 2018 by TheFlyingFox

[Kelly]

Just to add my two cents , Can somebody call toyota lanka today and ask for the price of an oil filter for the 2C engine ...

I bet you will be surprised how much it costs  .  Although masses think jap are easy to maintain , there isn't much difference of the price. sometimes same part costs 500 or 1000 bucks expensive than the equaliant for the euro. if thats your definition for 'expensive' is .  People have herd mentality , these are the same people who thinks,

1.Mazda parts are expensive than toyotas

2. Difficulty of finding parts for cars like pugs.

[matroska]

12 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

a good old doctor who buys a premio or axio for his liking is a fool and the list goes on and on, instead the doc should think about something which the forum likes.

Well not quite - What the folks on this forum are trying to do is dispel the myth that The 110,121 and the Premio/Allion are god's best creation. They encourage people to think out of the box and show the public that there's other cars other than the Toyotas. I'd think it's a great service because some folk don't know what they are missing.  

The other day I met a doctor who had an Allion which he was struggling to sell ie was asking me what I plan to buy next and when I told him it was a Honda he was like 'Apo Malli second hand market nahane....gattha gaman 1 Million wage loss. Toyota ekak gattanam awlak na...."  this is the type of mentality that we're dealing with in this country - so I really don't think it's a bad thing to make people think of alternatives. 

By all means buy the Toyota BUT just bear in mind you have other options. That's the point of asking the question in an automotive forum where people who are interested in more than A to B cars. If you want someone to justify your Allion/Axio  buying decision you can go to the next family party and ask Ananda Uncle, Gamini Maama, and Wijerathna Baappa .  "Putha - buy a Toyota ....good cars Honda? Apo wadak na Honda Motor bike ne gahanne  ! Suzuki Apo It's Indian. Audi - apoo spare part na.  Peugeot? Apo thel karanne naha...bowser ekakut ganna. " 

[Crosswind]

12 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Alright, so I made the mistake of forgetting about the handbook,  but what I have stated is in line with your book. In this climate to have a shorter oil change interval. I didn't need a book to tell me that, its common sense. The book of the swift says to run 10k on full synthetic, being a JDM it wont have a clause as the Ford but I change it on a shorter interval anyway

 

Btw do you have the one which came with the Sunroof and 17" wheels ? Loved that car back in the day but couldn't afford it. 

 

Anyone else got tired of the match after the hat trick ?

No. 

This is what you said:

"I think the Euros have such long intervals mainly due to the premium oil which they use. Intervals are what the book says without taking into consideration things like very high rate of stop and go traffic , harsh climate, dust etc etc"

You implied that 

1.Euros have long service intervals because they need premium oil - untrue. I have been using Castrol 10w 30 for the past 7 years. Initially the agent used Toyota 10w 30 oil. Yes - contrary to what you might believe, Euros are not allergic to Toyota oil

2. Service schedule for Euros do not take our conditions to account - untrue. You can see the above

What you have stated is NOT in line with the handbook. Its the exact opposite. 

Further, 

This is my 8th year with the Focus. 

What I have done so far, are:

1.Usual service twice a year

2. One gear oil change

3. Two sets of brake pads (I change them every 30k km, even if they are worn or not) 

4. Two sets of tyres - one due to bad experience with Nexen 

5. One bonnet lock replacement (lock =6000 on ebay, labour = 2000)

6. One gear link bush replacement (total 2000 at agent) 

7. Two sets wiper blades (each set 800 from aliexpress) 

8.Two sets of spark plugs (I change them every 30k irrespective of the condition) each set 2000 on ebay, delivered

So if anyone tells me Euros are unreliable/cost more to maintain etc., all I can say is the @&£# you. 

 

[TheFlyingFox]

1 hour ago, matroska said:

Well not quite - What the folks on this forum are trying to do is dispel the myth that The 110,121 and the Premio/Allion are god's best creation. They encourage people to think out of the box and show the public that there's other cars other than the Toyotas. I'd think it's a great service because some folk don't know what they are missing.  

The other day I met a doctor who had an Allion which he was struggling to sell ie was asking me what I plan to buy next and when I told him it was a Honda he was like 'Apo Malli second hand market nahane....gattha gaman 1 Million wage loss. Toyota ekak gattanam awlak na...."  this is the type of mentality that we're dealing with in this country - so I really don't think it's a bad thing to make people think of alternatives. 

By all means buy the Toyota BUT just bear in mind you have other options. That's the point of asking the question in an automotive forum where people who are interested in more than A to B cars. If you want someone to justify your Allion/Axio  buying decision you can go to the next family party and ask Ananda Uncle, Gamini Maama, and Wijerathna Baappa .  "Putha - buy a Toyota ....good cars Honda? Apo wadak na Honda Motor bike ne gahanne  ! Suzuki Apo It's Indian. Audi - apoo spare part na.  Peugeot? Apo thel karanne naha...bowser ekakut ganna. " 

Also not quite. What I have observed is that when someone asks of a comparison between a Toyota and a Euro , usually the Toyota is being bashed and laughed upon and for the people who use them and the list goes on. It’s like a cult in certain ways , people should also look at needs and wants. People also can comment with pros and cons equally. 

[Crosswind]

3 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Also not quite. What I have observed is that when someone asks of a comparison between a Toyota and a Euro , usually the Toyota is being bashed and laughed upon and for the people who use them and the list goes on. It’s like a cult in certain ways , people should also look at needs and wants. People also can comment with pros and cons equally. 

The Toyota is being bashed for a reason. Not just for kicks.

If you talk to a person who has owned a multitude of cars, you will know why. If you talk to a person who had only owned Toyotas (and may be Nissans) all his life, then its like the blind leading the blind.

In my case, I change my second car often. So I have owned: Chevrolet Cruze (two of them), Mini, Lancer CS1, Toyota 110, Kia Cerato, Peugeot 206 (Auto), Perodua Kelisa, Nissan FB14, B15, Ford Mondeo, Hyundai Santafe 1st Gen (convert), Suzuki Jimny, A32 Cefiro, A33 Cefiro, Honda City (the one that looks like the Fit Aria)

The ones that never gave me any kind of problems were: Kelisa (B/N import), A32 (B/N import), the 206 (Singapore import)

The biggest nightmare I had, was with the Toyota 110 (JDM) and the FB14 (JDM), closely followed by the B15 (JDM) and the City (Singapore import).

The Cerato gave me gearbox problems thanks to monkeys at a*to m*raj pouring CVT oil in to an ordinary auto gear box. Other than that, the Korean was also better than the Toyota I had.

I know that this doesn't mean Toyota build quality is mediocre. What it simply means is Toyota quality is not any different from other car manufacturers - whether its Ford or Peugeot or Kia or Nissan or Honda (although MBA textbooks will say otherwise). But most Toyotas in Sri Lanka are owned by stupid morons, so you give a car with average build quality to a moron, the end result is a nightmare to the next owner.

Toyotas are not god's gift to Sri Lankans. They are just god's gift to monkeys who believe that a valampuri can bring them eternal wealth or applying some gunk on their face every morning can make them look like Europeans or donating half-a-kilo of gold to a man with a weird hairdo can bring their loved one back or a 1000-year old puskola book has their name, their wife's name, parents name and the driving license number.