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Used hybrid or non hybrid car market


osanda19

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On 8/7/2018 at 2:35 PM, mcs627 said:

The morbid fear of hybrid technology is unfounded. The proof lies beneath and still running strong. It's the same fear that made people stay away from front wheel drive vehicles and automatics in the last couple of decades. 

IMG_20180805_143719.jpg

I took this photo on 15th October 2016 while on airport drop by Kan*roo cab. It's 2011 Prius and 499,355 km ODO at that time. 

According to the driver, only two drivers are riding this car from the very first day so he knows well about the vehicle. No battery replacement or no engine repair. However few repairs done but I cant remember all what he told. Suspensions were bad at that time and its replaced once before.   

 

IMG_20161015_092315.jpg

Not bad for taxi company/driver............................ At-least they may saved  1.5 million by fuel during 3-4 years. 

Edited by gayanath
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yes this video gets it spot on! As also mentioned by Gayanath example they are only suitable for those who do 100s of kilometers per day for business in a short time like taxi or rental drivers. Same reason why a european driver will go for a diesel car if he does more than 18000km/year. An ageing hybrid at home doing less kms per month is a ticking time bomb. No wonder there is now an oversupply of 5+ years old hybrids in the used market now.

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11 hours ago, Jason_Bourne said:

 

Are you quoting this YouTube donkey to establish your point. well I feel sorry for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As for this guy the only car that you should buy and keep is Toyota AE100 series corolla...

 

Edited by peugeot407
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2 hours ago, peugeot407 said:

Are you quoting this YouTube donkey to establish your point. well I feel sorry for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As for this guy the only car that you should buy and keep is Toyota AE100 series corolla...

 

Well if this guy is a donkey, who are you? lol 
Man if someone doesn't agree with you it's not nice to just insult. Specially when that someone has already made pretty strong points. If you just insult you become the donkey! Like you did now! :D 

This guy talks sense without being a fanboy of any brand!

Anyway "Toyota AE100" is/was a rock solid car. It was way superior than these high tech, overly complicated, no one can repair bullshit! lol 

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On 8/8/2018 at 2:56 PM, vag2 said:

These are known facts that car salesmen in Sri Lanka never tell an unsuspecting buyer when selling a Hybrid or EV.

 

in the meantime, THREE NEW THREADS about Hybrid and EV problems have opened in the last 24 hours!

A good representation of the poor Reliability of a technology still in development.

The people who rushed to ride the Hybrid wave to look "posh" to the Perera Aunty nextdoor are now starting to regret it when the failures have started coming?

hybrid failure.png

The ridiculous tax system drives the Sri Lankan car market. For an example in 2014, unregistered Honda Fit GP1 hybrid base grade with lot of options was 3.2M and unregistered 1l Toyota Vitz base grade with minimum options was around 3.7M due to the low hybrid tax. So I imported GP1 hybrid for 3.25M and enjoyed it because it was a fun little car to drive with lot of space. In addition I payed less for the fuel than the Toyota Vitz. After 4 years I sold it for 3.05M and the usable capacity of the battery was 75%. The car was manufactured in 2012 and after 6 years the battery degradation was 25%. So the person who purchased can run it more than 5 years from the current battery.

If you know what you purchase, know how it woks and maintain properly and price it reasonably, you can sell it without a problem. 

This is my personal experience and I did not get any battery issue during my ownership.

Lot of people don’t know how to use a hybrid that is why they get battery issues, they don’t use it daily and try to use EV mode all the time (specially Prius, Aqua) and they get battery issues sooner.

Now I took the advantage of the current tax system and purchased 2018 Ford Focus 1l   Turbo for 5.5M which is more fun to drive and comfortable than a 2018 Axio or Premio. (2018 Axio is around 7.5M and Premio around 8.5M). I don’t know what will be the second hand price for Ford Focus but I surely know I can enjoy it really well during the coming years since I have the agent’s warranty. So I maintain my new car really well as I did for my old Honda Fit hybrid and If I price it reasonably, I know I can sell it in the future.

Edited by tbird
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47 minutes ago, Jason_Bourne said:

Man if someone doesn't agree with you it's not nice to just insult. Specially when that someone has already made pretty strong points. If you just insult you become the donkey! Like you did now! :D 

Not sure whether this is applicable to peugeot407, however, this statement nicely fit with more others here like vxxx....   :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002: 

47 minutes ago, Jason_Bourne said:

Anyway "Toyota AE100" is/was a rock solid car. It was way superior than these high tech, overly complicated, no one can repair bullshit! lol 

Yes...... for a developing country like us, 110's are the best...... who knows hi-tech....... :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002:

The word "replace" is replacing the word "repair" gradually with cost effectiveness and durability but for us still "repair" sounds more friendly... 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jason_Bourne said:

Well if this guy is a donkey, who are you? lol 
Man if someone doesn't agree with you it's not nice to just insult.

Funny how you don't seem to be listen to your own words....

 

37 minutes ago, tbird said:

The ridiculous tax system drives the Sri Lankan car market. For an example in 2014, unregistered Honda Fit GP1 hybrid base grade with lot of options was 3.2M and unregistered 1l Toyota Vitz base grade with minimum options was around 3.7M due to the low hybrid tax. 

If you know what you purchase, know how it woks and maintain properly and price it reasonably, you can sell it without a problem. 

This is my personal experience and I did not get any battery issue during my ownership.

Lot of people don’t know how to use a hybrid that is why they get battery issues, they don’t use it daily and try to use EV mode all the time (specially Prius, Aqua) and they get battery issues sooner. 

True....Sri Lankans buy cars based on ridiculous factors. What we haven't learnt is the simple fact that with change of technology we need to change the way we maintain, and even use, these technologies (not just in cars but any tech). In SL most of these people buy these high tech cars and use it the same way they used their E80/90/100 Corolla. The same thing is going to happen with all these down-sized turbo charged engines...and when they start having problems they blame the technology for it.

Whilst any old car is a disadvantage to have in Japan; there are plenty of 4-5+ year Hybrids in Japan (especially in the less suburban/rural areas) that run with no problems (with the change in economy a lot of people tend to keep their cars for longer than before...especially the older crowd..and the youngsters are not that interested in cars). The difference over here is that the manufacturer takes care of the car for the people. Its quite common for the dealership to call up and say that your car needs servicing...and with systems like VICS programmed to notify users. Then on top of that....after the first 3 years all cars have to go to through a mandatory full inspection/check-up and an optional annual check-up....

Unfortunately SL does not have that kind of support. So we still don't have widely available and cost effective means to maintain EVs and HEVs at any stage of its life (it either costs way too much or your car would be safer with a monkey holding a wrench).

One arm sells cars with complete disregard to the owners (so 95% of the people have no idea what they are buying) and then we have another arm that provides "technical" services with not much structure and then a dead foot that represents the manufacturers who sit around until the brand goes to the dogs. Over the next decade Japan wants to increase FCV vehicles...would be interesting to see what our car sales people will do then.

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Not sure whether this is applicable to peugeot407, however, this statement nicely fit with more others here like vxxx....   :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002: 

Yes...... for a developing country like us, 110's are the best...... who knows hi-tech....... :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002:

The word "replace" is replacing the word "repair" gradually with cost effectiveness and durability but for us still "repair" sounds more friendly... 

 

 

..and this is the reason why most of these manufactures do not have Hybrid variants of the popular models in these markets (heck..even countries like Singapore and Malaysia got on the Hybrid band wagon after us...). Only a few markets in the world have Hybrid variants of the 161 Corolla, Vitz, etc... the only reason SL went Hybrid and EV was because of the tax structure. If the rationale for the preferential tax treatment for Hybrids were legit and forward thinking, they should extend the same to components of these vehicles too (are they ? )

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1 hour ago, iRage said:

True....Sri Lankans buy cars based on ridiculous factors. What we haven't learnt is the simple fact that with change of technology we need to change the way we maintain, and even use, these technologies (not just in cars but any tech). In SL most of these people buy these high tech cars and use it the same way they used their E80/90/100 Corolla. The same thing is going to happen with all these down-sized turbo charged engines...and when they start having problems they blame the technology for it.

100% agreed.....

1 hour ago, iRage said:

The difference over here is that the manufacturer takes care of the car for the people. Its quite common for the dealership to call up and say that your car needs servicing...and with systems like VICS programmed to notify users. Then on top of that....after the first 3 years all cars have to go to through a mandatory full inspection/check-up and an optional annual check-up....

Unfortunately SL does not have that kind of support. So we still don't have widely available and cost effective means to maintain EVs and HEVs at any stage of its life (it either costs way too much or your car would be safer with a monkey holding a wrench).

One arm sells cars with complete disregard to the owners (so 95% of the people have no idea what they are buying) and then we have another arm that provides "technical" services with not much structure and then a dead foot that represents the manufacturers who sit around until the brand goes to the dogs.

With increasing vehicle population, its high time to setup proper governing bodies as well as clear regulatory structure (with a system to assurance whether regulations are met - this is what we haven't every where) covering selling, maintenance, and dispose of motor vehicles. 

Even government should re-evaluate the "used car" importation system (whether it further continues or not) which have messed everything with non-regulated car sellers (no difference than private bus conductors). 

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Over the next decade Japan wants to increase FCV vehicles...would be interesting to see what our car sales people will do then.

As I remember, FCV tax is considerably lowered by  2015 or 2016 budget (not sure its increased later). 

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On 8/12/2018 at 11:45 AM, tbird said:

If you know what you purchase, know how it woks and maintain properly and price it reasonably, you can sell it without a problem.

Had to bump this up based on a recent experience that i felt worth sharing on the topic...yes this is so true. I really don't get why people are struggling to sell cars...even despite posting low prices. Just my experience I sold a GP1 for within Hours of advertising to the first caller.  I guess the unsold ones are horribly maintained or ridiculously overpriced. 

As for some wenda-pora osthar  suggesting hybrid buyers getting paranoid due to the depreciation B**** please... Selling a hybrid for about 3 laks above the price you bought it several years ago and after 60K kms on the clock is depreciation ..yeah right!

 

On 8/12/2018 at 11:45 AM, tbird said:

After 4 years I sold it for 3.05M and the usable capacity of the battery was 75%.

Man 3.05 is dirt cheap for a ride like that. The guy who bought it must be still grinning ear-to-ear. I sold my Gp1 with same battery capacity for 3.4 M 

 

On 8/12/2018 at 11:16 AM, Jason_Bourne said:

Anyway "Toyota AE100" is/was a rock solid car.

These are the folk who still masturbate to Sumana Gomes.... 

Edited by matroska
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4 hours ago, matroska said:

These are the folk who still masturbate to Sumana Gomes.... 

classics can not always be replaced by newer, because newer always doesn't mean better,don't forget there are people who still do that to Marylyn Monroe,Dilhaani or Sabeetha instead of Hayumi pinsamaali ?

regarding hybrids,its a myth to believe it to be latest technology. On one end is the Full EV and FCV,which will be a threat to the IC engine. On the other hand, gasoline ,diesel, LNG and ethanol driven engines are continuing to be improved,and are able to get closer mileage to hybrid vehicles which have older engine technology mated to additional hybrid components. Theoretically,more components give more failure rate when getting older. KISS is the golden principle, to improve robustness of design (Keep It Simple,Stupid!)

Edited by vag2
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2 hours ago, vag2 said:

classics can not always be replaced by newer, because newer always doesn't mean better

No argument there. But i don't quite think of the 110 to be a classic YET. Its an overpriced heap people still consider gods gift to humankind just because it seemed to run forever even if treated like sh*t.

2 hours ago, vag2 said:

regarding hybrids,its a myth to believe it to be latest technology. 

Yep.Hybrids are not latest at all its not even an evolving technology. Its a bridging technology. Hybrids are like the Blackberries. Something between the 3310s and the iPhones/Notes that eventually died out. The old feature phone still survives and the smartphone is evolving.But the Blackberries are nowhere to be seen. But in case of automobiles this won't happen overtime.

My point is dispelling the undue fear of hybrids. They are not Note7s about to explode in your hand. Its a fairly ok technology that wont just die overnight. I had a choice few years back to buy an unreg Fit hybrid with quite a few bells and whistles and creature comforts or  old dilapidated 121s gang raped by 15 makabasses or a tasteless turd like a belta without even a tachometer for the same budget or an obscenely overpriced cs3 owned by someone who thought he was driving an evo. Choice was simple and was an excellent choice.( Zero hassle usage and a good resale value.) There is no horror unlike what the average buyya (buying and selling folk) from Kohuwala would make you beleive.

2 hours ago, vag2 said:

Theoretically,more components give more failure rate when getting older. KISS is the golden principle, to improve robustness of design (Keep It Simple,Stupid!

Again I agree with you. Have a Datsun b110 and boy its pure joy when you open up that hood and you realize how simple everything is.  

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On 8/12/2018 at 12:46 PM, Jason_Bourne said:

Anyway "Toyota AE100" is/was a rock solid car. It was way superior than these high tech, overly complicated, no one can repair bullshit! lol 

Are you sure about that ? The AE100 was well rated for its safety during its time....even though I have one in Japan, i really don't want to be in it in a crash (keeping it only because we don't use it that much and I drive like a grand-ma and its a rare spec).

What makes a good car is not just about how many 100k you can do with minimal service.. So...do you really want to diss new cars just because you are too cheap to maintain the new tech in them whilst compromising on the pluses ? Yes...they might have more points of failure but it is not like they are made out of toilet paper, cheap plastic cups and sardine cans.

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Crash test performance is a different topic which has nothing to do with being hybrid or not-hybrid isn't it?

I have a strong feeling if the newer cars are as safe as they claim to be. Like emissions tests, crash tests can also be manipulated to perform better by adding reinforcements only in areas which are tested hard. Since automakers are continuously trying to reduce weight and increase profit, they have to reduce metal in some areas. A real world crash is far less precisely planned than a lab crash, as in Sri Lanka we see bigger damages to even new cars after a crash. I remember a top gear episode where they compared body strength by dropping some cars from a height,upside down. Only a SAAB from 90s survived. Passengers in all others would have died from collapsing roof,even in BMW 7series.

However having side airbags can save a few bruises in case of a rollover.So I would say they are more comfort options rather than life savers as long as the seatbelts are On.

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11 hours ago, vag2 said:

Crash test performance is a different topic which has nothing to do with being hybrid or not-hybrid isn't it?

I have a strong feeling if the newer cars are as safe as they claim to be. Like emissions tests, crash tests can also be manipulated to perform better by adding reinforcements only in areas which are tested hard. Since automakers are continuously trying to reduce weight and increase profit, they have to reduce metal in some areas. A real world crash is far less precisely planned than a lab crash, as in Sri Lanka we see bigger damages to even new cars after a crash. I remember a top gear episode where they compared body strength by dropping some cars from a height,upside down. Only a SAAB from 90s survived. Passengers in all others would have died from collapsing roof,even in BMW 7series.

However having side airbags can save a few bruises in case of a rollover.So I would say they are more comfort options rather than life savers as long as the seatbelts are On.

Yes. Crash tests are different. The point was that making statements like saying cars like ae100 are the best and newer cars are rubbish is not smart and shows the degree of ignorance. 

If a person thinks just a seatbelt will save your life and side curtain airbags are just for comfort, then it just goes to show how misinformed and short-sighted that person is. 

I guess you don't know about crimple zones and such. Yes newer cars do break up far more than older "steel" cars we Sri Lankans are obsessed with. But I suppose you are blind to the fact that the passenger cabin maintains its integrity more than old cars. Yes. Manufacturers strengthen certain areas more than others to pass and meet safety test requirements. But THAT IS THE POINT! Crash tests are not random. The tests are designed to test areas that are most compromised obtained based on statistics. 

But hey. Like they say, igonarance is bliss. 

Edited by iRage
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The importance of Crash tests or modern body design with Crumple zones etc is not irrelevant, but

1.its not a valid reason to decide to buy a 8 year old Prius instead of a non-hybrid Premio or Axio with same age(which is the topic here).

2.The possibility of Crash Test manipulation is already starting to be discussed, like emissions manipulations by numerous Automakers the real world and test lab results seem to have gaps.

Safety driving is the best way to avoid severe damages in case one gets into a crash, not because one has a 2008 Prius instead of a 1998 AE100 or a 2008 Premio/Axio. In a head-on or Side-door  Crash with a Leyland Bus or "Tipper", no Airbags or Crumple zones could save the occupants, as seen by many recent accidents here. I think the problem is partially that these heavy vehicles do not have any Crumple zones as Irage mentioned.

 

Edited by ajm
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13 hours ago, vag2 said:

I remember a top gear episode where they compared body strength by dropping some cars from a height,upside down. Only a SAAB from 90s survived. Passengers in all others would have died from collapsing roof,even in BMW 7series.

However having side airbags can save a few bruises in case of a rollover.So I would say they are more comfort options rather than life savers as long as the seatbelts are On.

Again.... This is same as your HV battery fire risk mater. Statements have no value as stats. 

Any risk assessment basically having two equally important parts which are Severity and Probability. For Severity, you may use statements, but probability needs stats. 

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On 8/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, matroska said:

Man 3.05 is dirt cheap for a ride like that. The guy who bought it must be still grinning ear-to-ear. I sold my Gp1 with same battery capacity for 3.4 M 

 

 

True, it is really cheap for the person who bought, I wanted to sell it quickly to buy the new car which I got a 0.4M discount from the agent as the special introductory price, so it was a win-win situation.

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On 8/12/2018 at 12:28 PM, gayanath said:

Not sure whether this is applicable to peugeot407, however, this statement nicely fit with more others here like vxxx....   :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002: 

Yes...... for a developing country like us, 110's are the best...... who knows hi-tech....... :laughing-smiley-002::laughing-smiley-002:

The word "replace" is replacing the word "repair" gradually with cost effectiveness and durability but for us still "repair" sounds more friendly... 

 

 

You are correct and this is valid for some Sri Lankans, specially in the old days. Now lot of people try to buy something new, to enjoy the comfort, features, ride quality etc. As an example, see the number of new Honda Civic 1Ts, MG ZS were sold in Sri Lanka during this year.

So the time is changing and most people love to buy a new car even if it is a small kei car.

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57 minutes ago, gayanath said:

 

Any risk assessment basically having two equally important parts which are Severity and Probability. For Severity, you may use statements, but probability needs stats. 

@gayanathyou are quite welcome to prove that your Acqua with cutting edge technology and super strong body/crumple zones can survive a head-on or side crash against a Colombo-Katharagama Leyland bus in Ranna area.Then we will provide you an additional statistic for your risk analysis.?

Edited by vag2
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1 hour ago, tbird said:

True, it is really cheap for the person who bought, I wanted to sell it quickly to buy the new car which I got a 0.4M discount from the agent as the special introductory price, so it was a win-win situation.

yeah you got yourself a Focus right? It's now 5.8 M

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6 hours ago, ajm said:

1.its not a valid reason to decide to buy a 8 year old Prius instead of a non-hybrid Premio or Axio with same age(which is the topic here).

Again...my point was to say  that anyone who says a 20+ year old car is rock solid and better than modern day cars  just because it is gasoline and has less electronics is short-sited and intellectually challenged (i.e. stupid). 

My point was NOT to say that safety has anythiing to do with Hybrid being better or not.

If I remember correctly the Prius actually got better Japanese safety ratings than the Premio and Axio...for quite sometime now the Axio and Prius have had better safety ratings than the Premio :D

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Meanwhile, Sri lankan  genius Makabass and First-hand hybrid owners have come up with new "gadgets" and tricks to show unrealistic remaining battery capacities when selling to 2nd hand buyer.

Honda civic FD3  "but"with Acqua battery. @gayanath can calculate statistically  which one  will explode faster ?39980157_970882826429990_1293212913363845120_n.jpg.cc5376b33d44eb715770bfb6dcd98766.jpg

 

Aqua Hybrid Battery manipulation circuit on  Bus bar, as a result all the remaining good cells damaged beyond repair. 2nd owner found out during disassembly?

39981526_10155946557204538_3757532824161222656_n.thumb.jpg.ec59354e0ba113d800c9ab8dbe7b7fd6.jpg

39958257_10155946556859538_6176726441292464128_n.jpg

 

 

So if you are Even thinking of buying a second hand hybrid, do not just believe only in the battery capacity scan report to make your decision. 

Edited by vag2
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