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Used hybrid or non hybrid car market


osanda19

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2012-13 used Hybrids have flooded the market where owners try to sell them before they have to replace the battery. 
So expect market will slowly realize Hybrids depreciate many times more than a typical non-hybrid. 
Hybrid rush in Sri Lanka is a bubble created by Car Sale guys. Non of these vehicles are popular even in their home market.

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15 hours ago, Jason_Bourne said:

2012-13 used Hybrids have flooded the market where owners try to sell them before they have to replace the battery. 
So expect market will slowly realize Hybrids depreciate many times more than a typical non-hybrid. 
Hybrid rush in Sri Lanka is a bubble created by Car Sale guys. Non of these vehicles are popular even in their home market.

That is rubbish.....which car are you talking about ? Because..it is not valid at all...The Aqua and the Prius have been market leaders in Japan since pretty much the time they were launched. Hybrid models of the Axio, Crown, minivans, etc..have been the better seller than their own gasoline variants; the Vezel, Grace, Fit, Shuttle Hybrids again were popular sellers only to be dethroned by newer models from other manufacturers....the Mark X which was Toyota's second longest selling sedan series (the X platform in general..i.e. the "Mark" series) got killed soon after the Camry, which was Hybrid only for Japan, was launched. In fact where normal cars are concerned its only Mazda who is going along with no Hybrids because their Skyactiv engines, but that too seems to be on a changing trend because that was the primary reason for them to partner up with Toyota. Subaru is going half and half...but the gasoline half is sustained pretty much by enthusiasts.... 

So it is NOT valid to say that Hybrids are not popular in their home country (I am assuming you are referring to Japan since 95% of Hybrids in SL are Japanese).

Now...in Japan far more kei cars are sold than any other type of car but that has nothing to do with Hybrids....The Suzuki kei cars, which are the only somewhat Hybrid kei cars around are not that popular compared to other kei cars because the others are a lot better..again...noting to do with Hybrid or not.

 

 

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On 7/31/2018 at 7:15 AM, iRage said:

That is rubbish.....which car are you talking about ? Because..it is not valid at all...The Aqua and the Prius have been market leaders in Japan since pretty much the time they were launched. Hybrid models of the Axio, Crown, minivans, etc..have been the better seller than their own gasoline variants; the Vezel, Grace, Fit, Shuttle Hybrids again were popular sellers only to be dethroned by newer models from other manufacturers....the Mark X which was Toyota's second longest selling sedan series (the X platform in general..i.e. the "Mark" series) got killed soon after the Camry, which was Hybrid only for Japan, was launched. In fact where normal cars are concerned its only Mazda who is going along with no Hybrids because their Skyactiv engines, but that too seems to be on a changing trend because that was the primary reason for them to partner up with Toyota. Subaru is going half and half...but the gasoline half is sustained pretty much by enthusiasts.... 

So it is NOT valid to say that Hybrids are not popular in their home country (I am assuming you are referring to Japan since 95% of Hybrids in SL are Japanese).

Now...in Japan far more kei cars are sold than any other type of car but that has nothing to do with Hybrids....The Suzuki kei cars, which are the only somewhat Hybrid kei cars around are not that popular compared to other kei cars because the others are a lot better..again...noting to do with Hybrid or not.

 

 

Owning a Hybrid does not mean you are spending less buy pumping less fuel. TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is the factor that needs to be considered.

Read this research! It analyses why Conventional Petrol Vehicles are still the market leader in terms of TCO even in highly industrialized countries like UK, USA & Japan. 

Hence in a 3rd world country like SL Petrol Vehicles are still far superior than any other form of technology. Hybrid, PHEV or Electric!

 

Total cost of ownership and market share for hybrid and electric vehicles in the UK, US and Japan

 

image.thumb.png.81fb5c1b03e2be3eba9373df941d7cbf.png 

 

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8 minutes ago, vag2 said:

very interesting and scientifically explained. For a Saving of 400GBP petrol cost, there is a depreciation of over 2000GBP!

Hybrids depreciate in value faster,even in their homeland Japan?

 

Exactly! 
There won't be any 10+ year old Hybrids in non of the markets worldwide (even in Japan). 
For comparison a Toyota 121 which is close to 20 years old still goes over 3 mill LKR!

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On 7/29/2018 at 8:40 PM, osanda19 said:

In future what will happen to the hybrid or non hybrid car market?what do u all guys think?

Well - the 2007/8 FD3,s and the initial Prius 2nd gen's are over a decade old now and the insights from 2009 -10 are almost a decade old and these still do have a 'market' . Of course you can get them for a cheaper price than their non-hybrid counterparts.  

On 7/29/2018 at 9:49 PM, ajm said:

compared to used non-hybrid ,used hybrids will be difficult to resell,unless the seller is willing to reduce the costs of battery(3.5-5lakhs)

I think it's about competitive pricing - for instance a close relative of mine sold his hybrid last month within a few days of advertising while I know 3 people who are struggling to sell their non-hybrid Toyotas  for over 3 weeks now. 

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3 hours ago, matroska said:

 

I think it's about competitive pricing - for instance a close relative of mine sold his hybrid last month within a few days of advertising while I know 3 people who are struggling to sell their non-hybrid Toyotas  for over 3 weeks now. 

This is true, I sold my Honda Fit GP1 in 3 days, Advertised on a Tuesday evening and sold on Saturday morning and you need to give a reasonable price without trying to make a profit. And if you have a good maintenance record, you can sell a hybrid easily because most of the people called me requested the maintenance records and wanted to have a scan to see the battery status.

I still see there are lot of FIT GP1 in same vintage available in advertising sites more than a month and asking price is very unreasonable when considering the depreciation and the battery degrade level.

Edited by tbird
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9 hours ago, Jason_Bourne said:

Owning a Hybrid does not mean you are spending less buy pumping less fuel. TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is the factor that needs to be considered.

Read this research! It analyses why Conventional Petrol Vehicles are still the market leader in terms of TCO even in highly industrialized countries like UK, USA & Japan. 

Hence in a 3rd world country like SL Petrol Vehicles are still far superior than any other form of technology. Hybrid, PHEV or Electric!

 

Total cost of ownership and market share for hybrid and electric vehicles in the UK, US and Japan

 

image.thumb.png.81fb5c1b03e2be3eba9373df941d7cbf.png 

 

As most of the time....you missed the point ! What is funny is you missed the point of the research you yourself sited. 

You quite authoritatively stated that Hybrid cars are not popular even in their home countries. I was stating that you were talking BS...because Hybrid cars are actually popular in the home country of Japan. Even your research states that Hybrids are popular in Japan !!! When you were bashing Hybrids in SL stating they were not popular in their home countries, you WERE referring to Japanese cars because it is not like we have American or European Hybrids all over the roads !  I didn't read the research paper in detail but through a quick read it had aimed to shows that TCO has a link between adoption rate (something we all knew but the research puts evidence behind it)..but doesn't say anything about the actual market share itself ? In the discussion section they start to discuss the popularity of Hybrids and other factors that drive it ?

Irrespective of the TCO (which we all agree is what matters) it doesn't change the fact that the Hybrids ARE POPULAR. So your pundit statement that Hybrids are not popular in their home country is you just putting in your own unfounded 2 cents. Check the sales figures, etc...heck..read your the research you yourself pointed out.

In Japan, pure gasoline cars are market leaders because of kei cars...because...kei cars have a low TCO (including being entitled to same co tax allowances as hybrids and actually getting preferential breaks for everything from shaken costs to parking and road tolls.

 

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13 hours ago, tbird said:

This is true, I sold my Honda Fit GP1 in 3 days, Advertised on a Tuesday evening and sold on Saturday morning and you need to give a reasonable price without trying to make a profit. And if you have a good maintenance record, you can sell a hybrid easily because most of the people called me requested the maintenance records and wanted to have a scan to see the battery status.

I still see there are lot of FIT GP1 in same vintage available in advertising sites more than a month and asking price is very unreasonable when considering the depreciation and the battery degrade level.

most cars in SL hybrid/non hybrid have no records at all - there's no way to verify mileage.  The average hybrid buyer is usually the kind of person who does some research and relies on a bit of information. So the usual 'aiyage car eka thiyenne bappage namata padinne punchi amma - service karnne handiye service station eke'  BS and a hefty price tag will not get you anywhere. 

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13 hours ago, iRage said:

In Japan, pure gasoline cars are market leaders because of kei cars...because...kei cars have a low TCO (including being entitled to same co tax allowances as hybrids and actually getting preferential breaks for everything from shaken costs to parking and road tolls.

 

In that case it makes sense to compare sales of one kei model offered with and without hybrid. AJapanese colleague once said  he wouldn't bother to buy a hybrid in case he was shopping for a Kei. Exact words were  "too much trouble for too less savings on initial cost and fuel.."

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Purchase price of a hybrid is more than that of the equivalent ICE in most of the countries so it does not make sense to buy the hybrid unless you do high mileage to recover the extra spent from fuel. High depreciation is also a fact.

However in SL there is (or was) significant tax advantage in favour of hybrids which resulted in the market getting flooded.

People bought them not for the fuel economy but the low purchase price.

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1 hour ago, kush said:

Purchase price of a hybrid is more than that of the equivalent ICE in most of the countries so it does not make sense to buy the hybrid unless you do high mileage to recover the extra spent from fuel. High depreciation is also a fact.

However in SL there is (or was) significant tax advantage in favour of hybrids which resulted in the market getting flooded.

People bought them not for the fuel economy but the low purchase price.

Yes..but that (purchase price diff) too is slightly diminishing now...Yes..when I was buying a car all the car sales people did the calculation and said since I do not use the car and I intend to keep it for a long time it is pointless buying a Hybrid. the thing is...in Japan with some of the tax breaks/lowered taxes..a lot of things made sense to buy a Hybrid. I just noticed that in the research, the way they had calculated the tax is not really representative of how the car is actually taxed. For example...a Corolla 1.5 (since there was no 1.8L in Japan) the car falls in to a separate tax bracket than the Hybrid where vehicle "class" is concerned. So it should have been compared against an Allion or a Premio. Where the taxes are significantly higher than that of a Corolla 1.5 and a Prius 1.8L...Our people buy cars based on all the non-sensible reasons. So it is pointless comparing logic in other countries. If the import tax drops for 3.5 SUVs...then they will be cheaper than your average Corolla and everyone will be buying that instead. Banana republic logic neh ?

 

5 hours ago, ajm said:

In that case it makes sense to compare sales of one kei model offered with and without hybrid. AJapanese colleague once said  he wouldn't bother to buy a hybrid in case he was shopping for a Kei. Exact words were  "too much trouble for too less savings on initial cost and fuel.."

It would have..but the thing is where kei cars it is Hybrid hybrid only or ICE only (I think...isn't it ?). In Japan there really is no trouble because the after sales service is quite good and they take care of you. The issue comes if you buy second hand. But personally I would not want to buy a second hand kei...

 

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a little bit OT but just want to add this  due to the mass-paranoia regarding hybrids. My car is 6 years old and has done 60,000 kms. Up to now I have changed the CVT oil, done regular maintenance on the dot, changed the wiper blades once, air filters and oil filters. Other than that it has cost me absoultely nothing. Since I've done 60 000 + km now and   decided to take a full system  report - and I was pleasantly surprised to see a usable capacity of 75% on the hybrid battery. What I want to iterate is that you shouldn't be alarmed about hybrids - I've done nothing more than regular maintenance that I did on previous non-hybrids. 

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On 8/3/2018 at 10:20 AM, matroska said:

a little bit OT but just want to add this  due to the mass-paranoia regarding hybrids. My car is 6 years old and has done 60,000 kms. Up to now I have changed the CVT oil, done regular maintenance on the dot, changed the wiper blades once, air filters and oil filters. Other than that it has cost me absoultely nothing. Since I've done 60 000 + km now and   decided to take a full system  report - and I was pleasantly surprised to see a usable capacity of 75% on the hybrid battery. What I want to iterate is that you shouldn't be alarmed about hybrids - I've done nothing more than regular maintenance that I did on previous non-hybrids. 

I know of a Prius 3rd gen which has covered over 250k km with routine maintenance

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If you go to a "hybrid battery repair centre" you will see how much business they have,and more and more such places are opening islandwide. If the battery was so bullet proof, they should go out of business isn't it ?

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9 hours ago, ajm said:

If you go to a "hybrid battery repair centre" you will see how much business they have,and more and more such places are opening islandwide. If the battery was so bullet proof, they should go out of business isn't it ?

Yes, it is true and when you use it, the usable capacity reduces and you may need repair or ultimately replace the battery. This is a known fact when anyone purchase a hybrid. The problem is asking price for a used hybrid is very high, for an example lot of people advertise 2012 Honda Fit GP1 for 3.4-3.5 M that is not worth. They should price it considering the usable capacity of the battery, then they can sell it easily and person who buy it, can replace the battery if needed.

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12 hours ago, ajm said:

If you go to a "hybrid battery repair centre" you will see how much business they have,and more and more such places are opening islandwide. If the battery was so bullet proof, they should go out of business isn't it ?

No battery out there is bullet proof - the point is it's nothing to wet your undies about . It's not like every hybrid car out there is a disaster waiting to happen : get a proper battery report and you're good to go(regarding the battery that is)  - i remember some one on AL showing the battery report of a potential purchase on a thread and asking whether it was OK to go ahead - that kind of background check helps. 

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2 minutes ago, Quiet said:

simple logic. If you are buying used Hybrid,

 

1. Do a battery scan

2. Make sure you have provisions for battery repair/replacement as it is an eventuality like changing your secondary battery.

OBD diagnostic is standard equipment in cars since 25years now. How many sellers are willing to let a potential buyer to connect a Scanner and do a diagnostic scan even for a non hybrid? This kind of proposal just scares everyone off, because of fear that the Scanner would "break" or ""erase" something(which can actually happen, in case of low quality Chinese scanners). We are in Sri Lanka you know, so the majority of people who use good cars(Doctors,Lawyers,Businessmen,Mafia,Politicos ...with the exception of Engineers maybe) would shrug off such a proposal even when selling a non-hybrid. Of course the seller can do the homework and get a battery-scan report before selling it, but the authenticity will be dubious and it will be abused and counterfeited just like the JAAI certificate.

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again simple logic. If seller does not allow you to scan the vehicle, buy one where allowed or buy a non hybrid. After all its about Rs.0.2-0.3Mn outlay you are talking about. Thats how my wife sold her vehicle. (She is a lawyer) Its slowly becoming a common practice. Several vehicle sales i know also allow scans at the agents before buying.

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37 minutes ago, Quiet said:

again simple logic. If seller does not allow you to scan the vehicle, buy one where allowed or buy a non hybrid. After all its about Rs.0.2-0.3Mn outlay you are talking about. Thats how my wife sold her vehicle. (She is a lawyer) Its slowly becoming a common practice. Several vehicle sales i know also allow scans at the agents before buying.

I suggest to get the check up done with the agent for the peace of mind. You can always request the seller for it if the deal is to happen.

After all you are paying good money running in to couple of millions.

If the seller is genuine they will agree if not look else where there are plenty of cars around 

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Well, this is my 2 cents. The car will treat you back if you treat it properly. I have a 2012 prius with 100k on the clock. Still battery is at 100%. I normally do all services at TL for the peace of mind. Yes, their may be places cheaper than that with the same quality. But if you are not 100% sure about those places, agent is the best option.

One more thing I noticed is that people put a lot of pressure on battery. They try to yield max saving by putting the car to EV mode all the time and stress the battery out. I'm not sure this a good thing. I drive mine as a normal gasoline model, and always on power mode, which give me the extra acceleration. I really don't look at the battery, still it gives me around 16 kmpl average from home to Orugodawatta and back. That is 100 km daily up and down.

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