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saimoomakash

Honda Vezel Hybrid 2014 Battery

Question

I recently purchased 2014 Vezel Hybrid Z package. One thing that i am noticing that the hybrid battery is not getting fully charged at all. After 80% charging the engine stopped charging the battery. The first two bar out of 6 in battery indicator never got lit. Is it any problem or this is normal? 

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11 minutes ago, Quiet said:

Normal

Someone told me that it is not fully charging because of battery cell damage. Is it true?

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could be memory effect, which is a known problem in batteries being recharged before properly discharging.

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1 minute ago, ajm said:

could be memory effect, which is a known problem in batteries being recharged before properly discharging.

What will be the solution? Someone told me that it is due to the cell damage. But i find it very unlikely. 

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The “memory” effect of the battery is “written” in a cycle with partial charging (in the photo, 50 percent of the battery’s storage capacity) followed by complete discharge. In the subsequent cycle, the memory effect is evident through an overvoltage (small “bump”) at precisely the same point at which the partial charging cycle terminates. On the extreme right, the normal voltage curve is shown for comparison.

Repetition of such partial cycles will gradually deteriorate the battery capacity, because the battery "thinks" it doesn't need to charge(prepare) so hard because the vehicle never uses so much energy in the end. Solution would be to replace it if it's the problem. First check with other new vessel owners out there how much max charge level is shown in a brand new vessel.

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_93-clipboard-1.jpg

Edited by ajm
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This 80% thing has nothing to do with memory effect. It is the design of the charging system in hybrid vehicles to leave a headroom for regenerative breaking when the battery is nearly fully charged and to keep the battery in optimum condition. These batteries do not tolerate over charging. When number of cells are in series they all get the same identical charging current. However the cells are not exactly identical. So over time some cells tend to capture more charge then the others. If the system is designed to fully charge the cells frequently then there is a chance for some of the cells in the same string to get over changed. 20% headroom is left to compensate for this and hence increase the cell life. 

 In fact the memory effect is not so pronounced in modern rechargeable batteries compared to older Ni-Cd batteries. In almost four years of daily driving the only few times I noticed fully charged battery in my car (Axio 2014) was when I was driving from Kandy to Colombo and from Haputhale to Beragala. So it quite normal.

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On 7/22/2018 at 6:48 AM, Rumesh88 said:

This 80% thing has nothing to do with memory effect. It is the design of the charging system in hybrid vehicles to leave a headroom for regenerative breaking when the battery is nearly fully charged and to keep the battery in optimum condition. These batteries do not tolerate over charging. When number of cells are in series they all get the same identical charging current. However the cells are not exactly identical. So over time some cells tend to capture more charge then the others. If the system is designed to fully charge the cells frequently then there is a chance for some of the cells in the same string to get over changed. 20% headroom is left to compensate for this and hence increase the cell life. 

 In fact the memory effect is not so pronounced in modern rechargeable batteries compared to older Ni-Cd batteries. In almost four years of daily driving the only few times I noticed fully charged battery in my car (Axio 2014) was when I was driving from Kandy to Colombo and from Haputhale to Beragala. So it quite normal.

Thanks! Excellent explanation!

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Rumesh88 is correct and it's how the system has designed. And you have nothing to worry. 

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Well..anyone who has been involved in design of such components would never say that the Hybrid Battery and Charging system is designed to work 100% perfectly forever, it is still  technology in Development!

There are many Studies confirming the presence of memory effect also in Li-Ion batteries, especially for one of the most common materials used as the positive electrode in lithium-ion batteries, lithium-iron phosphate (LiFePO4). With lithium-iron phosphate, the voltage remains mostly unchanged over a large range of the state of charge(SOC). When the Hi-Voltage battery SOC is determined from the voltage, a large error can be caused by a small deviation in the voltage. In hybrid cars in particular, the effect can arise during the many cycles of charging/discharging that occur during their normal operation. The battery is partially recharged during each braking operation by the engine running in a generator mode. It is in turn discharged, and usually only partially, to assist the engine during acceleration phases. The numerous successive cycles of partial charging and discharging lead to individual small memory effects adding up to a large memory effect. This leads to an error in the estimate of the current SOC of the battery, which is  used by Software to make the calculations for power management of the electric consumers in the Vehicle(and also showing an erroneous charge level on the Dashboard to the Driver).

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On 7/21/2018 at 10:48 PM, ajm said:

The “memory” effect of the battery is “written” in a cycle with partial charging (in the photo, 50 percent of the battery’s storage capacity) followed by complete discharge. In the subsequent cycle, the memory effect is evident through an overvoltage (small “bump”) at precisely the same point at which the partial charging cycle terminates. On the extreme right, the normal voltage curve is shown for comparison.

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_93-clipboard-1.jpg

 

14 hours ago, ajm said:

There are many Studies confirming the presence of memory effect also in Li-Ion batteries, especially for one of the most common materials used as the positive electrode in lithium-ion batteries, lithium-iron phosphate (LiFePO4). With lithium-iron phosphate, the voltage remains mostly unchanged over a large range of the state of charge(SOC). When the Hi-Voltage battery SOC is determined from the voltage, a large error can be caused by a small deviation in the voltage. In hybrid cars in particular, the effect can arise during the many cycles of charging/discharging that occur during their normal operation. The battery is partially recharged during each braking operation by the engine running in a generator mode. It is in turn discharged, and usually only partially, to assist the engine during acceleration phases. The numerous successive cycles of partial charging and discharging lead to individual small memory effects adding up to a large memory effect. This leads to an error in the estimate of the current SOC of the battery, which is  used by Software to make the calculations for power management of the electric consumers in the Vehicle(and also showing an erroneous charge level on the Dashboard to the Driver).

Better to give Citations otherwise you will be a culprit of Plagiarism. 

https://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries

??:laughing-smiley-002:

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46 minutes ago, gayanath said:

 

Better to give Citations otherwise you will be a culprit of Plagiarism. 

https://www.psi.ch/media/memory-effect-now-also-found-in-lithium-ion-batteries

??:laughing-smiley-002:

This is common knowledge, this resource best describes it.

The Paul Scherrer Instituts (PSI)  has published this as result of a study with Toyota group.

You are welcome to read in detail and improve your knowledge about Battery ageing effects before giving false advice to others.

And If you want I can post more resources about these failures that are not available on Internet.

Edited by ajm

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2 hours ago, ajm said:

You are welcome to read in detail and improve your knowledge about Battery ageing effects before giving false advice to others.

False advice?? 

Battery aging effect is not denied by me, but well clear that, its not relevant to the OP's query. 

 

P.S. - 

Learning and knowledge sharing is always admired. Don't get upset. I just kid you only. :laughing-smiley-002:

Your resources are mostly welcome. 

 

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4 hours ago, gayanath said:

 

Battery aging effect is not denied by me, but well clear that, its not relevant to the OP's query. 

 

 

Oh sorry, maybe I misunderstood.

Truth is Li-ion batteris have also been showing some capacity losses similar to the memory effect seen in Ni-MH batteries.

And this joint research by Swiss and Japanese Engineers has found out the root cause to be in the widely used LiFePo4 Anodes.

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