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Hi Guys,
I also experienced the same oil burning issue in my 2013 GP1 at 40,000 KM. I did the engine de-carb/clean up from Stafford (option 2 mentioned in above posts) some time back. After running for about 5000 KM more, i noticed that it's still burning oil. I'm currently at around 10,000 KM after the repair, and it's burning oil at nearly the same rate as before. Those who did the same procedure from Stafford, did it fix the problem for you guys, or is it still the same ?
Thanks !
 


What I did was an engine flush. It didn't help. Still burns. When I asked from them if there are any cars that got the issue fixed by that , they weren't aware.

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4 minutes ago, GK_007 said:

 


What I did was an engine flush. It didn't help. Still burns. When I asked from them if there are any cars that got the issue fixed by that , they weren't aware.

 

I just can't believe an experienced mechanic (I mean even a makabaas who has opened up an engine block at least once to clean up oil sludge) would suggest an engine flush as a solution to remove gunked up piston rings. Oil sludge inside an engine becomes so hard you really need a scraper to remove it. Just a passive flush would not do anything at all.

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52 minutes ago, Rumesh88 said:

Oil sludge inside an engine becomes so hard you really need a scraper to remove it.

is it possible to happen also with Diesels and lead to not-starting ? what are the symptoms?

 

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On 12/3/2017 at 9:41 AM, Car Lover said:

Repair Solutions. 

Option 1 : Cleaning spark plugs & Fuel Injectors + change engine oil to higher viscosity grade from 0W-20 to 10W-30. 

Option 2 : Option 1 + cleaning existing pistons & piston rings   

Option 3 : Option 1 + replacing pistons & pistons rings. < This is what mentioned in the Honda recall notice. Seems they have re-engineered pistons to not to form sludge with their new design >  

Guys,

If you are going ahead with proper repair as recommended in recall notice ( i.e. Option 3 ), these are the parts that you need to replace.  Honda has packaged it now under part number "06131-RBJ-306". Refer image attached.

Pkg includes 1 Piston +1 Piston Ring +1 Piston Pin. You need 4 sets of above. 

Thanks.

06131-RBJ-306.jpg

Edited by Car Lover
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Guys can we keep this in one thread? Because we might miss vital info if we keep posting on two threads. I suggest we move to older thread that has 5 pages of responses.

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Hi Guys, 

Honda USA has also released a recall notice with 8 year Warranty extension for Honda Insight 2012 - 2013 for same oil burn issue. 

Further they have released full instructions for  Piston Kit replacement. Refer below link for details. 

https://honda.oemdtc.com/TSB/A16-101.pdf

Since Honda FIT also having same IMA engine this should apply for same. 

Refer carefully piston ring positions ( RC & 2R marks ) and their angles on page 17 < refer image 1 attached>.

If your mechanic install these without any prior knowledge on ring positions, sides & spacer clock angles your entire effort & money will be lost. As there are specific groves on each ring to provide correct oil sealing while maintaining required compression. Also need ring compressor tool to position piston rings back into cylinder. < refer Page 18 or image 2 attached>

Happy Reading :-)

Thanks 

Ring Set.png

Ring Set 2.png

Edited by Car Lover
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On 12/3/2017 at 2:27 PM, vitz said:

Thanks. Already mailed. Thanks google translator for japanese translation

Has anyone got positive feedback from Honda Japan ? 

I've got few mail responses from them.... they just apologize for the inconvenience caused and request me to contact local dealer stating that they have  informed them directly about my issue. But feedback from Stafford is still the same, claiming nothing informed about recall for GP1 officially. 

Those who have had similar FIT or Insight oil burning issues, just raise your voice to Honda Japan < [email protected] >

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20 hours ago, Car Lover said:

Has anyone got positive feedback from Honda Japan ? 

I've got few mail responses from them.... they just apologize for the inconvenience caused and request me to contact local dealer stating that they have  informed them directly about my issue. But feedback from Stafford is still the same, claiming nothing informed about recall for GP1 officially. 

Those who have had similar FIT or Insight oil burning issues, just raise your voice to Honda Japan < [email protected] >

I talked to a manager in Stafford regarding this. He said the recall does not apply to us since Fit GP1 is a domestic model which is not supported outside of Japan.

We might stand a chance if we raise our concerns directly to Honda Japan through that email.

Edited by champikasam

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On 12/7/2017 at 1:18 PM, champikasam said:

Hi Guys,

I also experienced the same oil burning issue in my 2013 GP1 at 40,000 KM. I did the engine de-carb/clean up from Stafford (option 2 mentioned in above posts) some time back. After running for about 5000 KM more, i noticed that it's still burning oil. I'm currently at around 10,000 KM after the repair, and it's burning oil at nearly the same rate as before. Those who did the same procedure from Stafford, did it fix the problem for you guys, or is it still the same ?

Thanks !

 

Champ - how did you detect  the issue? Drastic oil level drops?

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1 hour ago, matroska said:

Champ - how did you detect  the issue? Drastic oil level drops?

In my case there was a tappet like noise coming from the engine when running idle. And the oil level was dropping heavily between services

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26 minutes ago, champikasam said:

In my case there was a tappet like noise coming from the engine when running idle. And the oil level was dropping heavily between services

Exactly, this is a symptom of this problem "tappet like noise". You won't be able to visually notice black smoke, perhaps, very minor deposit of carbon on the tip of the silencer. 

By the way, my one doing okay after the second option, though got it done in kandy. I am really taking precautions when doing oil change, especially I let old oil drain for overnight as the service is done by my self. Trust me, quite lot of old oil drains during 12 hrs drain period and all 4 liters of new oil used.

It seems Stafford repair is quite questionable. I am wondering, doesn't Stafford give a warranty for their repair!!!!

Edited by vitz

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5 hours ago, champikasam said:

He said the recall does not apply to us since Fit GP1 is a domestic model which is not supported outside of Japan.

they have this legal loophole,because the affected vehicles are brought down by shady importers even though the suitability is not tested for our local higher temperature conditions. Is there no hope to raise the issue with the car sale people?

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9 hours ago, ajm said:

they have this legal loophole,because the affected vehicles are brought down by shady importers even though the suitability is not tested for our local higher temperature conditions. Is there no hope to raise the issue with the car sale people?

There is nothing to do with environmental conditions e.g: higher temperatures etc for this specific problem. Its a manufacturer's design fault due to oil control rings getting clogged with carbon deposits over a period of time. Even if you clean them and reinstall (option 1 & 2 ) will only be a temp relief, once it clogged back oil burning issue will reappear. Basically they have corrected this fault in their new piston / piston ring replacement kit. Refer attached, simply Honda advised to trash all 4 existing installed pistons/rings, if they have "RBJ-1" mark on it. Rectified new pistons will come with "RBJ" mark. This leaflet comes along with original Honda Piston repair kit. Meaning its a design fault & hence nothing to do with environmental temp conditions. 

RBJ.thumb.jpg.04856b3429a5eff6ceb5d450b2ba19dc.jpgHaving said that I see two major risks. 

1)Passenger Safety :  If this problem appear in a severe way, specially when you are driving at high speeds (e.g: highway ) , your vehicle will slowdown immediately due to engine misfiring & ECU limp mode triggering. So outcome / risk of sudden speed drops, at high speeds you should be able to imagine !!! 

2) Environmental air pollution: In Sri Lanka we are not doing emission tests for hybrids. However hybrid vehicles with above issue will emit higher amount of carbon than specified.    

Since above issues are very severe both from passenger safety & environment stand point,  in other countries Honda has issued recall notice for vehicles with above issue ( applies to Honda FIT both petrol & hybrid models, Insight hybrid ).  Most of the developed nations have taken strict legal actions against these.   http://www.autonews.com/article/20131022/OEM11/131029975/american-honda-settles-class-action-suit-over-oil-burning-claim 

Even though above case study is not specifically for FIT/Insight... but for a similar case, this is how developed nations react to these kind of issues. Hence OEM manufactures also take utmost responsibility to serve those nations better considering possible adverse impacts to their brand reputation. Since consumers from developing countries like Sri Lanka are not making any noise, manufacturers/dealers simply ignoring with some unreasonable excuses, without serious consideration at all. 

On a different note, once Honda gave a free-of-charge replacement in Sri Lanka for "Honda Vezel" on Ignition Coils & Power Supply Noise  Filters, which is again due to a recall.   http://www.honda.co.jp/recall/auto/info/141023_3457.html 

Stafford did FoC replacements for same. Honda Vezel also a parallel import & not a vehicle imported through Stafford, but Honda has advised Stafford to do this rectification FoC considering the RISK factor.  Then my question is why not for FIT & Insight ? Why Honda discriminate their recall policy then & there ? 

Basically we are not requesting recall warranty for a minor thing like headlight discoloration or fabric stain but for more serious issue which impacts passenger safety caused due to a manufacturer's design fault. 

Considering all above facts, my view is we all should write to Honda Japan and make our noise. We as customers have a right to do so and get a reasonable response from the manufacturer on their final stance. 

Edited by Car Lover

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Hi I have also sent an email to Honda both in English and Japanese with no reply. As I know new pistons and rings for GP1 not available at the agent Stafford motors. 

Is the part 06131-RBJ-306  compatible with GP1 as well? 

Is it available elsewhere?

Should I go for a Stafford repair without piston ring change ( as parts OS) or go for replacing engine with reconditioned one as suggested by local mechanic which can be done around 90k ?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Nims said:

Hi I have also sent an email to Honda both in English and Japanese with no reply. As I know new pistons and rings for GP1 not available at the agent Stafford motors. 

Is the part 06131-RBJ-306  compatible with GP1 as well? 

Is it available elsewhere?

Should I go for a Stafford repair without piston ring change ( as parts OS) or go for replacing engine with reconditioned one as suggested by local mechanic which can be done around 90k ?

 

 

I can't recommend "Stafford repair without piston ring change" as it did not work for me. Check with the other forum members who did the same procedure as well and decide because it will cost almost 70 k.

What exactly did the local mechanic mean by "replacing engine with a reconditioned one" ? If it is an engine overhaul using an engine with the same problem, it will not solve the problem !

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46 minutes ago, champikasam said:

I can't recommend "Stafford repair without piston ring change" as it did not work for me. Check with the other forum members who did the same procedure as well and decide because it will cost almost 70 k.

What exactly did the local mechanic mean by "replacing engine with a reconditioned one" ? If it is an engine overhaul using an engine with the same problem, it will not solve the problem !

Hey thanks for the reply. I am also reluctant to go to stafford repair  without part change as it is not a complete solution but no other option from them as well. sterling also said part replacement quoting 150k but  i am not sure they has the right parts.

What my local mechanic suggesting is recall is for 40k odd chassis nos (GP1-1200002 to GP1-1242186) . There is a good chance of finding a good engine without having the issue. reconditioned engines are in the range of 60-80k. but no way of guaranteeing these dont have the issue. you have to depend on luck. (which i hardly get).I think its an engine overhaul they use word block replacing or mot replacing i'm not sure.  

Anyway will update thread on whatever happens

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2 hours ago, Nims said:

Hi I have also sent an email to Honda both in English and Japanese with no reply. As I know new pistons and rings for GP1 not available at the agent Stafford motors. 

Is the part 06131-RBJ-306  compatible with GP1 as well? 

Is it available elsewhere?

Should I go for a Stafford repair without piston ring change ( as parts OS) or go for replacing engine with reconditioned one as suggested by local mechanic which can be done around 90k ?

 

 

Yes, part 06131-RBJ-306 is compatible with FIT GP-1.

BTW don't go for a recon engine as anyway those are installed with faulty Piston / rings. Recall has mentioned only chassis no, but not engine numbers. Hence end of the day your time, effort and money will be wasted. 

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2 hours ago, Car Lover said:

Yes, part 06131-RBJ-306 is compatible with FIT GP-1.

BTW don't go for a recon engine as anyway those are installed with faulty Piston / rings. Recall has mentioned only chassis no, but not engine numbers. Hence end of the day your time, effort and money will be wasted. 

Thanks for the advice. Decided to go for the repair from agent now and go for the part change if needed when available. Hopefully Honda japan may advice to local agent for at least a reduced charge by then. :mellow: 

 

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17 hours ago, Car Lover said:

There is nothing to do with environmental conditions e.g: higher temperatures etc for this specific problem. Its a manufacturer's design fault due to oil control rings getting clogged with carbon deposits over a period of time.

true it's a design problem.But its also a known fact that thin oils deteriorate faster in our hot climate, traffic,thermal cycles which could accelerate the sludge formation problems. Recently there are more design issues with car makers(even Japanese) and there is no consumer protection mechanism at the moment for grey imports, which is unacceptable.

Edited by ajm

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