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Hi, 

My friend has a Honda FIT Hybrid Model DAA-GP1.

Few weeks back he got his vehicle check engine lights on and put his vehicle for diagnosis at  local Honda Agents. They said there is an engine oil burning issue and hence they advice him to do engine flush clean-up along with spark plugs & injector cleaning. Then as per their advice he did above. During the repair they changed  engine oil from 0W-20 to 10W-30 stating that its advisable to move to a higher viscosity oil grade in case of oil burning. It costed nearly Rs 20k.

Then again  just few days after his repair,  Check Engine lights came again. Hence  went again to Agents & they said it's a known issue for my model a  hence they need to repair engine by changing Pistons, Piston  Rings & other accessories  etc etc.. which is kind of engine overhaul which may cost on avg Rs160k ++ . Other option is just clean the pistons without replacing.... which may cost 1/2 of the above price. However they havent recommend same as problem can re-appear.  It seems there were similar cases before for same model. 

My friend got shocked as his vehicle has done only 40,000 ++ Kms. Its totally a design fault.

I couldn't believe why Honda can't manufacture an engine which can drive at least 100,000Kms without any issue as  I never experienced same either with Toyota or Nissan. 

However through internet, I found that this is a known issue for Honda Fit & Insight, & hence Honda Japan has issued a recall notice for same. My friends model / Chassis No also falls within the recalled chassis range. Refer below link. ( Open link with Chrome browser and Translate to English via Google translator or refer attached 3 images  ) http://www.honda.co.jp/recall/auto/other/170120.html   

Seems initial Piston design allows sludge formation on the edge of the piston oil ring, hence it may result in poor sealing of the oil ring. Due to above it may cause engine oil to leak into engine combustion chamber which causes cylinder misfire hencec trigger Check Engine Lights. Sometimes even short circuit spark plugs. 

In the recall notice Honda has clearly mentioned below. 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis No range - Honda Fit : 

GP1-1200002 to GP1-1242186

May 10, Heisei 24 - August 2, Heisei 20

 [Request to customers]

1) We are very sorry for everyone you love us, but if the above events occur, please contact the nearest Honda dealer in advance to inform us of your visit date and we will accept your inspection.

2) If parts replacement repair is necessary, we will do it free of charge ( FoC). 

3) If you have any questions, please contact the nearest Honda dealer.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since this is known recall, when i ask from agents , they informed me that they haven't officially informed to do this free of charge from Honda yet.  

Q1 : Has anyone experienced similar issue with Honda FIT GP1 ( or Insight ) ?  How you have resolved it ? Have you guys replaced pistons + piston rings or only cleaned and re-fixed ? 

Q2 : I'm planning to write to Honda Japan and check validity of above recall option in SL. Does anyone has contact email of Honda Japan ?   I couldn't locate it from their Japanese web site. Has any one tried this option before and any positive response /luck with it ? 

Thanks. 

Recall2.png

Recall3.png

Recall1.png

Edited by Car Lover
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3 hours ago, Car Lover said:

why Honda can't manufacture an engine which can drive at least 100,000Kms

apart from Toyota,other Japanese manufacturers recently have been going downhill on the quality of design side. Maybe because of higher costs to develop complex systems and lack of finances force them to streamline the costs of validation processes during development of core parts which they take for granted. Due to fast changes in technology,it is getting harder for smaller car companies to survive on their own,and many go for joint development to share costs. Honda is one of the few that still does development on its own. Another reason could be that young Japanese are moving away from cars,and embracing technology instead. So its possible that engineers on the design team have not much car experience and only theoretical/simulation experience. No matter how advanced the tools are,it's experience and knowhow which enables to setup a simulation correctly and move to a real design,then validate is using real but not too harsh or too easy parameters.

is it an original or grey import? In case of latter,I doubt if writing could get them to admit the fault and give an apology because there is the loophole that the car was used in a market it was not released for. It depends on their sincerity,but it might work. There is this story that Honda sent down a battery pack free of shipping cost,but it happened to a friend of a friend of a friend as always. In case of original, being more assertive could help. It would be better to complain directly to customer service number,but you need someone fluent in Japanese for that.

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Found this important technical part from your post. Which explains how it happens. 

Quote......

Contents

In the case of frequent use under operating conditions that are disadvantageous to oil deterioration, such as operation that decelerates without stepping on the brake from mid-low speed running to just before stopping, the deposit (*) generated due to oil deterioration stays around the oil ring Then, clogging of the oil return hole may result in poor sealing of the oil ring, which may increase oil consumption.

*: Deposit ... Oxide or carbide produced by combustion of fuel, engine oil, etc. in engine combustion chamber

....unquote. 

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On 27/11/2017 at 11:32 PM, Car Lover said:

Hi, 

My friend has a Honda FIT Hybrid Model DAA-GP1.

Few weeks back he got his vehicle check engine lights on and put his vehicle for diagnosis at  local Honda Agents. They said there is an engine oil burning issue and hence they advice him to do engine flush clean-up along with spark plugs & injector cleaning. Then as per their advice he did above. During the repair they changed  engine oil from 0W-20 to 10W-30 stating that its advisable to move to a higher viscosity oil grade in case of oil burning. It costed nearly Rs 20k.

Then again  just few days after his repair,  Check Engine lights came again. Hence  went again to Agents & they said it's a known issue for my model a  hence they need to repair engine by changing Pistons, Piston  Rings & other accessories  etc etc.. which is kind of engine overhaul which may cost on avg Rs160k ++ . Other option is just clean the pistons without replacing.... which may cost 1/2 of the above price. However they havent recommend same as problem can re-appear.  It seems there were similar cases before for same model. 

My friend got shocked as his vehicle has done only 40,000 ++ Kms. Its totally a design fault.

I couldn't believe why Honda can't manufacture an engine which can drive at least 100,000Kms without any issue as  I never experienced same either with Toyota or Nissan. 

However through internet, I found that this is a known issue for Honda Fit & Insight, & hence Honda Japan has issued a recall notice for same. My friends model / Chassis No also falls within the recalled chassis range. Refer below link. ( Open link with Chrome browser and Translate to English via Google translator or refer attached 3 images  ) http://www.honda.co.jp/recall/auto/other/170120.html   

Seems initial Piston design allows sludge formation on the edge of the piston oil ring, hence it may result in poor sealing of the oil ring. Due to above it may cause engine oil to leak into engine combustion chamber which causes cylinder misfire hencec trigger Check Engine Lights. Sometimes even short circuit spark plugs. 

In the recall notice Honda has clearly mentioned below. 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis No range - Honda Fit : 

GP1-1200002 to GP1-1242186

May 10, Heisei 24 - August 2, Heisei 20

 [Request to customers]

1) We are very sorry for everyone you love us, but if the above events occur, please contact the nearest Honda dealer in advance to inform us of your visit date and we will accept your inspection.

2) If parts replacement repair is necessary, we will do it free of charge ( FoC). 

3) If you have any questions, please contact the nearest Honda dealer.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since this is known recall, when i ask from agents , they informed me that they haven't officially informed to do this free of charge from Honda yet.  

Q1 : Has anyone experienced similar issue with Honda FIT GP1 ( or Insight ) ?  How you have resolved it ? Have you guys replaced pistons + piston rings or only cleaned and re-fixed ? 

Q2 : I'm planning to write to Honda Japan and check validity of above recall option in SL. Does anyone has contact email of Honda Japan ?   I couldn't locate it from their Japanese web site. Has any one tried this option before and any positive response /luck with it ? 

Thanks. 

Recall2.png

Recall3.png

Recall1.png

I have contacted them twice through [email protected]. however, they are yet to respond regarding my second email about the oil burning.

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2 hours ago, Sam B said:

I have contacted them twice through [email protected]. however, they are yet to respond regarding my second email about the oil burning.

Thanks Sam B,,, lets jointly make noise to Honda Japan.

As clearly highlighted in their recall notice this is not Customer's fault, its all b'coz their design fault. 

If anyone else has experienced same issue for your Honda FIT or Insight,  please voice your concern to Honda japan via above email.. 

 [email protected]

thanks. 

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did you write in English? probably they will think you are a trickster from Africa. Try writing a strong and polite letter in Japanese, then they might take it seriously.

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Thanks for the post. Though this was discussed early, your post prompted the real reason. 

Just to mention my case: The problem popped up after 80000 km. After cleaning rings, now I have driven 35000km more, no problem yet.

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On 11/29/2017 at 11:44 AM, gayanath said:

Found this important technical part from your post. Which explains how it happens. 

Quote......

Contents

In the case of frequent use under operating conditions that are disadvantageous to oil deterioration, such as operation that decelerates without stepping on the brake from mid-low speed running to just before stopping, the deposit (*) generated due to oil deterioration stays around the oil ring Then, clogging of the oil return hole may result in poor sealing of the oil ring, which may increase oil consumption.

*: Deposit ... Oxide or carbide produced by combustion of fuel, engine oil, etc. in engine combustion chamber

....unquote. 

Thanks. Could you elaborate on this bit more

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9 hours ago, vitz said:

Thanks for the post. Though this was discussed early, your post prompted the real reason. 

Just to mention my case: The problem popped up after 80000 km. After cleaning rings, now I have driven 35000km more, no problem yet.

hi Vitz,

1. From where you did the repair ?

2. Have you replaced any parts or only cleaned & fixed existing pistons/rings ?  

3. How much it cost ? 

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9 hours ago, vitz said:

Thanks. Could you elaborate on this bit more

You can see it briefly in my initial quote itself. Anyway refer below. 

Original Piston design allows sludge formation on the edge of the piston oil ring, hence it will result in poor sealing of the oil ring. Due to above it may cause engine oil to leak into engine combustion chamber which causes cylinder misfire. Due to this ECU will trigger Check Engine Lights. If you connect an OBD scanner you may be able to see following OBD error codes. 

1)      P0300 HONDA - Random Cylinder Misfire Detected

2)      P0302 HONDA - Cylinder Number 2 Misfire Detected

3)      P0303 HONDA - Cylinder Number 3 Misfire Detected

As a safety precaution car ECU may put vehicle into a safety mode called "LIMP Mode".  In the LIMP mode your engine may not Rev more that 20rpm & hence vehicle may not go more than 10kmph speed.

This is b’coz when the vehicle goes into limp mode when the engine misfires, the ECU is shutting down the electronics to the transmission to prevent damage to the catalytic converter as the fuel condition is either too lean or too rich.

Repair Solutions. 

Option 1 : Cleaning spark plugs & Fuel Injectors + change engine oil to higher viscosity grade from 0W-20 to 10W-30. 

Option 2 : Option 1 + cleaning existing pistons & piston rings   

Option 3 : Option 1 + replacing pistons & pistons rings. < This is what mentioned in the Honda recall notice. Seems they have re-engineered pistons to not to form sludge with their new design >  

In my friends case he tried Option 1, with but couldn't last at least 500 kms.

That's why i'm evaluating the best option between option 2 & 3 with your reviews / feedback. 

 

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3 hours ago, Car Lover said:

You can see it briefly in my initial quote itself. Anyway refer below. 

Original Piston design allows sludge formation on the edge of the piston oil ring, hence it will result in poor sealing of the oil ring. Due to above it may cause engine oil to leak into engine combustion chamber which causes cylinder misfire. Due to this ECU will trigger Check Engine Lights. If you connect an OBD scanner you may be able to see following OBD error codes. 

1)      P0300 HONDA - Random Cylinder Misfire Detected

2)      P0302 HONDA - Cylinder Number 2 Misfire Detected

3)      P0303 HONDA - Cylinder Number 3 Misfire Detected

As a safety precaution car ECU may put vehicle into a safety mode called "LIMP Mode".  In the LIMP mode your engine may not Rev more that 20rpm & hence vehicle may not go more than 10kmph speed.

This is b’coz when the vehicle goes into limp mode when the engine misfires, the ECU is shutting down the electronics to the transmission to prevent damage to the catalytic converter as the fuel condition is either too lean or too rich.

Repair Solutions. 

Option 1 : Cleaning spark plugs & Fuel Injectors + change engine oil to higher viscosity grade from 0W-20 to 10W-30. 

Option 2 : Option 1 + cleaning existing pistons & piston rings   

Option 3 : Option 1 + replacing pistons & pistons rings. < This is what mentioned in the Honda recall notice. Seems they have re-engineered pistons to not to form sludge with their new design >  

In my friends case he tried Option 1, with but couldn't last at least 500 kms.

That's why i'm evaluating the best option between option 2 & 3 with your reviews / feedback. 

 

Hi,

I went for the option 2. Though we had a lengthy discussion on the root cause of the problem, none of the members could give a good reason. I myself put the blame on me due to some delays in servicing. That's why I went for the option 2.

As Honda has identified it as a design failure, If I am you, I would opt for option 3 considering the long run. 

regards

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On 11/30/2017 at 12:52 AM, Car Lover said:

Thanks Sam B,,, lets jointly make noise to Honda Japan.

As clearly highlighted in their recall notice this is not Customer's fault, its all b'coz their design fault. 

If anyone else has experienced same issue for your Honda FIT or Insight,  please voice your concern to Honda japan via above email.. 

 [email protected]

thanks. 

Thanks. Already mailed. Thanks google translator for japanese translation

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3 hours ago, vitz said:

Hi,

I went for the option 2. Though we had a lengthy discussion on the root cause of the problem, none of the members could give a good reason. I myself put the blame on me due to some delays in servicing. That's why I went for the option 2.

As Honda has identified it as a design failure, If I am you, I would opt for option 3 considering the long run. 

regards

Hi, 

I also thought same. But unfortunately Stafford don't have parts ( mainly pistons and Piston rings ) in stock. Only Panchikawatte guys have them. But not too sure whether they have rectified new pistons or not. If those from an old stock entire exercise will be a waste. :-( 

Edited by Car Lover

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Stafford have the re designed pistons and the rings with them now. Checked last week. Cost for option 3 (replacement of pistons and rings) cost is said to be around 160k.

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13 hours ago, GK_007 said:

Stafford have the re designed pistons and the rings with them now. Checked last week. Cost for option 3 (replacement of pistons and rings) cost is said to be around 160k.

No, not for GP1. We checked last Saturday as well from both Maradana & Pepiliyana branches. 

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No, not for GP1. We checked last Saturday as well from both Maradana & Pepiliyana branches. 


Really ? I checked from Maradana as well. Just give them a call and ask for Mr Gamini. He is knows the issue in and out, and he is the one gave me the info.

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5 minutes ago, GK_007 said:

 


Really ? I checked from Maradana as well. Just give them a call and ask for Mr Gamini. He is knows the issue in and out, and he is the one gave me the info.

 

Price is somewhat correct. But no parts available in-stock. As we checked from spare parts division directly. 

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Price is somewhat correct. But no parts available in-stock. As we checked from spare parts division directly. 


Ok, may be parts are out of stock. I am also having this issue, they recommended an engine flush to begin with. But it didn't help. Considering the cleaning option since the engine repair is not affordable for me at the moment. But If I can, I will also opt for that, since its a permanent solution.

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Hi, 

I think Stafford has inflated the repair charge as there is no any alternative. However, better to note that there are similar competent people are around. Most of them are ex-workers of Stafford. Perhaps, they can do the repair for a lower cost.  For instance the garage in Kandy where I got done the repair. 

 

Edited by vitz

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Ar

13 hours ago, Car Lover said:

I guess you went with option 2, how much it cost you to get it done from your Kandy garage?

Around 45000++, though it was year nearly year ago.

Edited by vitz

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Hi Guys,

I also experienced the same oil burning issue in my 2013 GP1 at 40,000 KM. I did the engine de-carb/clean up from Stafford (option 2 mentioned in above posts) some time back. After running for about 5000 KM more, i noticed that it's still burning oil. I'm currently at around 10,000 KM after the repair, and it's burning oil at nearly the same rate as before. Those who did the same procedure from Stafford, did it fix the problem for you guys, or is it still the same ?

Thanks !

 

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