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vitz

Fit GP1 Oil Level Drops

Question

Experts

We got a GP1 (2012), 83000km clocked

- I noticed a drastic drop of engine oil level, I need to top up engine oil once to twice during the service interval. What is the problem?

I wanted to do a tuneup and replacement of plugs done from the Stafford assuming the problem would be solved. Since there are no service reservations available till 22nd Feb, I was compelled to take the vehicle to one of their dealer in Kurunegala. Before visiting the place today,  I got a confirmation on the availability of spark plugs with them, but after cleaning injectors and throttle body, they said that spark plugs are not available (typical irresponsible feed back from SL response) . We cleaned all 8 plugs and put them back.  Anyways, it allowed me to take a pic of the present status of the spark plugs (see below). One of the mechanic was saying that deposits on the plug could be due to sludge formation and this can be solved by cleaning the piston areas and changing piston rings. He was saying oil level drop is resulted by the sludge formation. I am not much sure about what he says?.

Inline image

 We bought this car unregistered in 2013 (15000km clocked) and serviced timely. It is a daily long distance runner (160 km). Hard to believe a sludge formation. 

For first services in during first one and half years we had to use 10w-30 oil since 0W-20 was not available. Then we reverted to 0w-20, could this be a reason?. Do you think shifting to 10W-30 would solve the problem?

Edited by vitz

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@GK_007 I just cannot understand why a modern Honda engine designed to run at higher engine block temperature than their counterparts of a bygone era would need "decarbonizing" at the mileage given, unless of course the term was used (or abused!) to put more weight on a simple clean up process along with a gasket and plug change. Understandably one has to somehow justify a Rs. 100,000 charge. BTW @vitz got the same thing done for half that price. 

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12 minutes ago, Rumesh88 said:

@GK_007 I just cannot understand why a modern Honda engine designed to run at higher engine block temperature than their counterparts of a bygone era would need "decarbonizing" at the mileage given, unless of course the term was used (or abused!) to put more weight on a simple clean up process along with a gasket and plug change. Understandably one has to somehow justify a Rs. 100,000 charge. BTW @vitz got the same thing done for half that price. 

Exactly ! besides at 75k kms. They said 33,000 would be for spark plugs alone. :( still since they are the agents I dont feel like going anywhere else since this involves a dissembling of the engine.

I am thinking of going to stafford for an inspection and see what they tell after that. 

@Rumesh88 do u think this issue will lead to a bigger problem soon or later say in like 7000kms ? because I anyway have to replace ATF, and plugs at 80000kms so thinking of going to stafford in couple of months. And do the check in the same visit. 

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@GK_007 If it is like 1/2 litre oil top up between services you may go on without an issue. However, if the oil consumption suddenly increase then you will have to attend to it immediately. Keep monitoring the oil level regularly as you do now. Normal inspection/scan at the agent would not reveal anything unless you tell them the issue.

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On 2017-6-7 at 11:24 AM, GK_007 said:

I think I am having the same issue with my Honda Fit GP1 2013 clocked 73500kms. I also do monitor oil levels normally on a weekly basis and noticed the issue since last 2-3 services. Well still the oil level is between the High and low marks on the dip stick, but a reduction of like 0.5 cm is evident.

So I do a top up in like 3000 kms after a service. (My service interval 5000kms , oil 0w 30).Unless I am having a different issue, dont think the issue is with running short distances. Because I do like 100kms every day !

Car does not show any indication of wearing out, pick up is good. No black smoke, the exhaust gives out moisture. And I do services on time, Bought the car with genuine verified mileage 5000 kms. 

After reading this thread, called the Stafford and they said oil level reduction in GP1 is kind of a known issue and even now they are repairing 2 vehicles. They said engine needs to be decarbonized, plugs replaced and some adjustment to rings (when I asked if ring replacement is required they said not needed). And they also told that the cost of repair would be roughly 100000 Rs. :s And they also said that after the repair they will be recommending a thicker engine oil. Could not get the code of oil, if it is 30 or 40 ! 

So I am wondering what to do, :s , I have no clue of what they are planning to do as the repair. Is it a full engine repair ? Should I go for it ? Bit hesitant since I see no other evidence of burning oil. :s (BTW, dont see any leaks as well) 

Please help me to take the next step. 

 

They told me the cost will be around 70,000LKR!! Wonder why they quoted 100,000 for you. Oh this is going to cost an arm and a leg. :(:wacko::(

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@Sam B I guess the extra 30,000 Rs is for the spark plugs. Think you did not want to replace them ? Mine is due as per maintenance schedule. Just called this Hy** H*b people.

For them also it seems a very common issue with Fit/Insight/Civic who share same / similar engines. They said the same reason, shrinking of rings and oil seeping in to combustion chamber. 

As @Rumesh88 said I really cant believe such modern vehicles have these issues.  He also did not know an exact reason, said things like exceeding service interval, keeping car parked for long period might have caused this. 

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Yeah, it's frustrating. But I was spot on with my service- 6 months or 5000km. Maximum I exceeded was by 500km and that was because I couldn't get a vacant slot. Car has done a little over 60,000km, so doubt if I'd be needing a change of plugs. Also, my problem came up when I actually started using it a lot. Hyb-- H-B also do these repairs? I still haven't decided whom to go to, to solve this. Agent seems like the safer option.:blink:

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@Sam B Yes I agree, and yes they do and amazingly for this repair agent seems cheaper than Hy*** H*b people ! 

Although I agreed with Hy*** H*b with their expertise and knowledge in identifying the issue, they suggested I either have to replace the engine or do an overhaul !!  :wacko: That's insane. And the quoted price for the overhaul was way higher than the agents repair.

Better to stick to agent, I think if the rings have lost their physical properties, better to ask them to replace them also. Or else I feel the issue might come again.

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On 2017-6-9 at 3:32 PM, GK_007 said:

@Sam B Yes I agree, and yes they do and amazingly for this repair agent seems cheaper than Hy*** H*b people ! 

Although I agreed with Hy*** H*b with their expertise and knowledge in identifying the issue, they suggested I either have to replace the engine or do an overhaul !!  :wacko: That's insane. And the quoted price for the overhaul was way higher than the agents repair.

Better to stick to agent, I think if the rings have lost their physical properties, better to ask them to replace them also. Or else I feel the issue might come again.

Did you get the repair done?

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On 6/9/2017 at 3:05 PM, Sam B said:

Yeah, it's frustrating. But I was spot on with my service- 6 months or 5000km. Maximum I exceeded was by 500km and that was because I couldn't get a vacant slot. Car has done a little over 60,000km, so doubt if I'd be needing a change of plugs. Also, my problem came up when I actually started using it a lot. Hyb-- H-B also do these repairs? I still haven't decided whom to go to, to solve this. Agent seems like the safer option.:blink:

Perhaps, 6 month interval is too lengthy for this delicate engine. After 5000 km, engine oil becomes quite bad in color. Now I do the service by myself. One observation I made; earlier when the service was done by service stations, always quite a volume of oil remained in the can after the service. Now, as I allow overnight to drain all dirty oil, all 4 liters are used. 

Ours was in heavy use from the very first day. The problem came after 80000km. Now we have done almost 12,000 km after the repair but no issues yet. Works well.

Edited by vitz

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3 hours ago, vitz said:

Perhaps, 6 month interval is too lengthy for this delicate engine. After 5000 km, engine oil becomes quite bad in color. Now I do the service by myself. One observation I made; earlier when the service was done by service stations, always quite a volume of oil remained in the can after the service. Now, as I allow overnight to drain all dirty oil, all 4 liters are used. 

Ours was in heavy use from the very first day. The problem came after 80000km. Now we have done almost 12,000 km after the repair but no issues yet. Works well.

You use up all the oil in the 4l can??? I too have a bunch of cans with leftover oil at home. Stil I think it's mineral oils that are changed every 6 months although we do it every 6 months.

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On 2017-6-20 at 8:11 AM, Sam B said:

You use up all the oil in the 4l can??? I too have a bunch of cans with leftover oil at home. Stil I think it's mineral oils that are changed every 6 months although we do it every 6 months.

Got the repair done and cost me around 65k at Agents. They've changed the oil to 10W30. Although oil burning was not because of ring wear, why have they changed the oil to 10W30? 

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6 hours ago, Sam B said:

Got the repair done and cost me around 65k at Agents. They've changed the oil to 10W30. Although oil burning was not because of ring wear, why have they changed the oil to 10W30? 

Good that you got it done. You meant oil burning was not due to ring wear? What is the reason then?

 

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1 hour ago, vitz said:

Good that you got it done. You meant oil burning was not due to ring wear? What is the reason then?

 

They showed me a tiny set of holes around the perimeter of the ring, of a car already disassembled when I got there. These holes get clogged up  and send lub oil upwards in to combustion chamber instead of back to engine sump over liner surface. As more and more oil is pushed on to combustion chamber oil burns. 

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@Sam B Thank you for updating the thread with details of the issue. So it is the holes on the oil control ring groove (on the piston) clogged up, right?

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11 hours ago, Sam B said:

They showed me a tiny set of holes around the perimeter of the ring, of a car already disassembled when I got there. These holes get clogged up  and send lub oil upwards in to combustion chamber instead of back to engine sump over liner surface. As more and more oil is pushed on to combustion chamber oil burns. 

Are these holes caused by the wearing off of the rings or are they inherent in the rings ? Because if they are inherent(built in by design), then don't you think that the issue might come again (not any sooner, but someday) unless you use rings without holes ? I feel they recommended a thicker oil so that for thicker oils it would be difficult to get through the holes in to the combustion chamber. 

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5 hours ago, Rumesh88 said:

@Sam B Thank you for updating the thread with details of the issue. So it is the holes on the oil control ring groove (on the piston) clogged up, right?

Yes, my oil control looks like the third ring from the top in this photo. What I don't understand is reason why they shifted to 10W30. Thicker oil means I will do a little less on fuel econ, right @Rumesh88?

3oilringspiston.jpg

 

14 minutes ago, GK_007 said:

Are these holes caused by the wearing off of the rings or are they inherent in the rings ? Because if they are inherent(built in by design), then don't you think that the issue might come again (not any sooner, but someday) unless you use rings without holes ? I feel they recommended a thicker oil so that for thicker oils it would be difficult to get through the holes in to the combustion chamber. 

No, the holes are there for a reason. Oil that flows up inside connecting rods comes down to engine sump through these holes, lubricating the liner on its way. Thicker oil, in my opinion, has more chance of clogging it up. :huh:

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@Sam B oh in that case they serve a purpose it seems, didn't knew that. now I doubt if this repair is a permanent solution ... :huh: I may be wrong but I feel it is just bad design of the rings. 

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@Sam B Use of 10W30 instead of 0W20 will only make a very marginal difference in fuel consumption which can be simply ignored. But what is the logic behind switching to a higher viscosity? Perhaps it could be that the agent simply doesn't want to take a chance. Well you need to understand their predicament too. They must be getting quite a number of similar cases and  in some cases there can be ring or cylinder wear but not that serious enough to warrant a complete overhaul. So as a general rule they must have taken a decision to switch to a higher viscosity grade whenever they do this type of repair. That is understandable because in case if they fail even one case out of ten they get a bad reputation. I'm sure you know what social media can do these days :rolleyes:.

Edited by Rumesh88
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Hi Guys, 

Just wanted to know when your oil levels were low, did the oil indicator indicate that the oil levels were low? because mine didnt. I just have a habit of checking oil/rediator fluid often, 

 

THANKS

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Hi Guys, 
Just wanted to know when your oil levels were low, did the oil indicator indicate that the oil levels were low? because mine didnt. I just have a habit of checking oil/rediator fluid often, 
 
THANKS

No not mine as well. I too check oil levels as a habbit. Then again I don't wait until the level is anywhere near the low mark on the dipstick. May be the indicator will blink when the oil level is below the low mark. Mine drops half from the high mark after running 3000kms.

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Finally visited the agents for the repair. Amazingly they suggested before going for the big repair, to try an engine flush. Did that and yet to see if it solves the issue. Will post the update. 

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16 hours ago, GK_007 said:

Finally visited the agents for the repair. Amazingly they suggested before going for the big repair, to try an engine flush. Did that and yet to see if it solves the issue. Will post the update. 

Doesn't make much sense to me either. Good luck anyway cos you can save a lot if it works.

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My update after the engine flush. 'No' it hasn't helped. left with only one option now to go for the big repair.

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