Octane 95 vs 92 for Vezel

[sfernando]

Hi All,

I recently bought Honda Vezel and would like to know which fuel is good for Vezel.

Below are my considerations

IOC 92
IOC 95

Cypetco 92
Cyptetco 95

Also please let me know using addictives based fuel such as Extra Mile would have and advantage over the above for Honda Vezel

Really like to get feed back from techies.

Edited December 24, 2016 by sfernando

[Twin Turbo]

Congrats on your new toy.

Fuel any where is a sensitive sub and has been discussed extensively here (pls ref prev posts).  I've met people who swear by the user enefits of 95OCT petrol riding their Chaly'bikes  

Check your user manual for further details.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Twin Turbo

[sfernando]

Manual says Regular Bio-mixed gasoline (E10 / MTBE 22) . What is the Octane for this.

[Twin Turbo]

21 minutes ago, sfernando said:

Manual says Regular Bio-mixed gasoline (E10 / MTBE 22) . What is the Octane for this.

Same or slightly higher than regular , depending on the rate of ethanol mixed.

[Twin Turbo]

28 minutes ago, sfernando said:

Manual says Regular Bio-mixed gasoline (E10 / MTBE 22) . What is the Octane for this.

Same or slightly higher than regular , depending on the rate of ethanol mixed.

[iRage]

The manual says

- Regular Gasaoline

- Regular Bio-mixed gasoline.

So you have two options.

In Japan Regular gasoline is Oct 92-95 depending on the brand.

[sfernando]

In Japan Regular gasoline is Oct 92-95 depending on the brand.

Does this mean IOC 92 would be OK?

[Muditha420]

Just pump 95OCT.... there isn't anything better anyway... whether its from IOC or Cypetco which ever is close by at the moment of refueling. both type of OCT should be okay. You have a Hybrid mate, the way you drive will depend on the millage you rack up. Drive with a heavy foot low kmpl, use hypermiling technique (i doubt you can with tuks n bikers n occasional pedestrians who displays animal like tendencies on the road while animals use the crossing) to achieve or least get close to fuel figuers mentioned by the manufacturer. 

I get 8kmpl and 4 (IF m lucky) when i need the feel for a little fun, I have no clue why ur so concerned abt this when so many use 92 or 95OCT, its not like there is anything else.

[Twin Turbo]

THE MASTER FUEL THREAD

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Twin Turbo

[tux]

I don't know a out the Honda hybrid details, but atkinson cycle engine in toyota hybrids have a very low compression ratio. ( 8:1) and high expansion ratio (13:1). Due to that toyota hybrids are totally fine with regular 92Oct petrol.

I guess Vezel is also comes with atkinson cycle engine. 

[sfernando]

13 hours ago, tux said:

I don't know a out the Honda hybrid details, but atkinson cycle engine in toyota hybrids have a very low compression ratio. ( 8:1) and high expansion ratio (13:1). Due to that toyota hybrids are totally fine with regular 92Oct petrol.

I guess Vezel is also comes with atkinson cycle engine. 

Can some one please confirm on this.

[iRage]

On 12/24/2016 at 6:20 PM, sfernando said:

In Japan Regular gasoline is Oct 92-95 depending on the brand.

Does this mean IOC 92 would be OK?

theoretically yes....

why not just call up the local Honda agent and ask ?

Edited December 25, 2016 by iRage

[The Stig]

13 hours ago, tux said:

I don't know a out the Honda hybrid details, but atkinson cycle engine in toyota hybrids have a very low compression ratio. ( 8:1) and high expansion ratio (13:1). Due to that toyota hybrids are totally fine with regular 92Oct petrol.

I guess Vezel is also comes with atkinson cycle engine. 

 

Just now, iRage said:

theoretically yes....

Theoretically yes but practically dont think so.

For example in Mazda skyactive engines the compression ratio is 14:1 but manual recommends to use 87 octane (92 for us here) cause they have made a fancy exhaust to reduce knock. You cant judge the octane needed by compression ratio alone.

This is taking a shot in the dark, better stick to what the manufacturer has recommended.

[Rumesh88]

13 hours ago, tux said:

I don't know a out the Honda hybrid details, but atkinson cycle engine in toyota hybrids have a very low compression ratio. ( 8:1) and high expansion ratio (13:1). Due to that toyota hybrids are totally fine with regular 92Oct petrol.

I guess Vezel is also comes with atkinson cycle engine. 

AFAIK Vezel engine does not run in Atkinson mode whereas GP5 engine does. With variable valve timing mechanisms in modern engines, it is just matter of setting the ECU program to run the mode you want. 

[iRage]

11 hours ago, The Stig said:

 

Theoretically yes but practically dont think so.

For example in Mazda skyactive engines the compression ratio is 14:1 but manual recommends to use 87 octane (92 for us here) cause they have made a fancy exhaust to reduce knock. You cant judge the octane needed by compression ratio alone.

This is taking a shot in the dark, better stick to what the manufacturer has recommended.

I think you missed a few posts....

Going back  to what I said in the first place ! The user manual says "regular gasoline" out of the two options. In Japan regular gasoline is between Octane 92 and 95 depending on the brand. Which goes to the "theoretically yes" response....Oct 92 here should have the same Octane as 92 in Japan. I said theoretically as...well....you know our guys  

I never said theoretically yes based on any compression ratio

[The Stig]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

I think you missed a few posts....

Going back  to what I said in the first place ! The user manual says "regular gasoline" out of the two options. In Japan regular gasoline is between Octane 92 and 95 depending on the brand. Which goes to the "theoretically yes" response....Oct 92 here should have the same Octane as 92 in Japan. I said theoretically as...well....you know our guys  

I never said theoretically yes based on any compression ratio

There is a mix up

My compression ratio reply was actually for tux. I thought you replied to his theory

 

[sfernando]

Based on all comments seems its safer to use Octane 95 in SL. If some one have other thoughts please comment.

[tux]

It looks like Vezel comes with a regular Otto cycle engine [1]

It got a 1.5L engine and produces 132HP. I.5L engine comes with Toyota aqua only produce 71HP which is a Atkinson cycle engine. Also Vezel can rev upto 6600RPM, Atkinson cycle engine cannot reach such RPM (max around 5000RPM)

With such performance figures, I guess it's safe to assume that 95oct is more appropriate for Vezel.

[1] http://www.honda.co.jp/VEZEL/common/pdf/vezel_spec_list.pdf

Edited December 26, 2016 by tux

[iRage]

So this is getting interesting....the Octane of gasoline is now insinuated to be determined by HP it produces and the maximum RPM that the engine can go up to (in the Vezel's case max out put of 132PS at 6600RPM)? 

Until like a few years ago..."Regular" grade gasoline in Japan was 90 Octane for the most part and it is only since recently most Regular gasoline on average is 92. "High-Ocu"(High-octane)/Premium was 95 and above. Some brands offer "Ultimate" which is like 98+

Which leads to my question...if the manufacturer states the car needs regular gas (92ish) why would we conclude that the car is better off with high-oct/premium (95ish)?

[Rumesh88]

10 hours ago, iRage said:

Which leads to my question...if the manufacturer states the car needs regular gas (92ish) why would we conclude that the car is better off with high-oct/premium (95ish)?

In fact it is the "car owner" who "feels" better off with high octane gasoline. One may feel better when he says my car runs on Octane 95 to his peers or be able to jack up the price for a car that runs purely on Octane 95. Perhaps it is mind set that matters here not what the manufacturer says! 

[tux]

BTW I got to know that in LK

95OCT = 92OCt Petrol + Ethanol

because ethanol act as a anti knocking agent.

[kush]

My GP5 (similar engine as Vezel) has newer seen anything other than 92 for last 2 years (30k km) is happy without any issues. I get 17-18 kmpl urban and 22-23 kmpl highway

[sfernando]

Thanks Kush for the comment on GP5. But will it be the same for vezel as well. Can a expert comment on this. BTW I have tested the car with Octane 95, Euro 3 and Octane 92.

What I experienced is Octane 92 gives me better mileage compare to Euro and Oct 95. But performance wise I Euro 3 and 95 is bettter (Better pulling power).

So my question is, is it safer to use octane 92 for vezel?

[Rumesh88]

46 minutes ago, sfernando said:

Thanks Kush for the comment on GP5. But will it be the same for vezel as well. Can a expert comment on this. BTW I have tested the car with Octane 95, Euro 3 and Octane 92.

What I experienced is Octane 92 gives me better mileage compare to Euro and Oct 95. But performance wise I Euro 3 and 95 is bettter (Better pulling power).

So my question is, is it safer to use octane 92 for vezel?

This has been discussed in detail and together with your observations now you can take an educated decision. To summarize what has already been discussed here,

1. Manufacturer recommends "regular" octane in Japan which is almost (no one knows for sure) equivalent to 92 in Sri Lanka.

2. GP5 an Vezel engines are physically the same but not operationally AFAIK. 

3. If you feel that 92 gives better mileage and 95 gives better performance, you can decide on what to use based on your priorities. 

As to the question whether it is safe to use 92 on a Vezel yes it is safe as long as you do not regularly operate the engine closer to its red line but remember the episode a few years back when we found 92 was unsafe on almost all vehicles.

[sfernando]

On 3/7/2017 at 10:35 AM, Rumesh88 said:

This has been discussed in detail and together with your observations now you can take an educated decision. To summarize what has already been discussed here,

1. Manufacturer recommends "regular" octane in Japan which is almost (no one knows for sure) equivalent to 92 in Sri Lanka.

2. GP5 an Vezel engines are physically the same but not operationally AFAIK. 

3. If you feel that 92 gives better mileage and 95 gives better performance, you can decide on what to use based on your priorities. 

As to the question whether it is safe to use 92 on a Vezel yes it is safe as long as you do not regularly operate the engine closer to its red line but remember the episode a few years back when we found 92 was unsafe on almost all vehicles.

What do you man by closer to its read line? Is it the revolution u meant? in Vezel I can see dash board meter panel color green, white and red.