Ek3 Break Issue

sira · May 11, 2014

Hi

Last Friday I met a small accident. I was driving around 50Kmph and suddenly the front car stopped and I was not able to. My car was skidding about 2 Meter and hit. It was small damage for both and called the insurance then all sorted. I admit that the speed was little bit high and distance was closed.

However this feels me little bad experience. I had Nissan FB13 and it also had similar issue and it was so bad. Rear wheel break is very poor. But this is not that bad but I want those rear wheels have very good break. This does not have ABS.

Normally I do not apply hand breaks when I park this in my garage. Some cases do not drive this car for a weeks’ time. What happen is, when I release the hand break breaks will not release. The break gets bind due to corrosion with the drum surface. Normally after washing the car I park in the garage. So water may stay there and start corrodes with drum surface.

This is my findings,

In the morning when the drum is cool, the breaks are fantastic. I can feel that rear wheel got good break. Car stops quickly and not dragging. But after few min time when the drum is heated up the break was not too good.

What is your idea of this issue? Do you think something different?

The break paddle not sink and not even move 2 inch down.
Replaced the brake shoes 2 months back and bleed the system.

Please let me have your commnets

Sira

Edited May 11, 2014 by sira

Komisiripala · May 12, 2014

well two things come to mind:

1. if you don't have ABS, don't follow so close at those speeds. you can't expect your car to outperform its limitations. sri lankan drivers tailgate quite close, as compared to other countries. as you have seen now, its really dangerous. plus its your fault so if the other driver is a tool he'd mak you pay for his repair too (which is well within his rights)

2. you can upgrade to discs. i upgraded my civic for similar reasons. but as it has been said many times with those who know more than i, a drum and disc of similar diameter will have equal brake force. a drum maybe even more. BUT, discs don't have heating issues easily, and they work in the rain. drums on the other hand get waterlogged and then they're nothing better than ornaments.

i think you can upgrade to ABS as well, but i don't know how feasible that is. or even whether its possible. a set of rear discs with trailing arms, and upper arms (with ABS lines) cost me 25,000 from US car sales dehiwala. in 2010.

Davy · May 12, 2014

One of the first things to consider looking into is whether your brake fluid needs to be changed. Over time, the integrity of the fluid degrades causing various issues such as ineffective braking when warm.

Inspect your brake fluid reservoir. If the fluid has turned black/dark, the oil probably needs to be changed.

sira · May 14, 2014

Hi,

can you tell me should i service the break master cylinder. is there any peticuler time to service it, replace the washers...etc? however break peddle dose not sink. looks it is working fine to me. do i need to service of this ?

is there any service period for this? my one YOM is 1998.

sira

Davy · May 15, 2014

There is no service interval for the brake cylinders (master/slave) as far as I know and they should be serviced or repaired only when there is an issue in the system. If your brake pedal is not spongy and if your pedal does not sink unnecessarily, then I doubt there is anything wrong with the master cylinder washers.

As I mentioned before, you should consider changing your brake fluid if it's been a while. This is a much more simpler step in diagnosing the issue, over removing the master cylinder for service.

sira · May 15, 2014

There is no service interval for the brake cylinders (master/slave) as far as I know and they should be serviced or repaired only when there is an issue in the system. If your brake pedal is not spongy and if your pedal does not sink unnecessarily, then I doubt there is anything wrong with the master cylinder washers.
As I mentioned before, you should consider changing your brake fluid if it's been a while. This is a much more simpler step in diagnosing the issue, over removing the master cylinder for service.

I have done that during the front caliper repair.

Rumesh88 · May 15, 2014

@sira - Drive for a few minutes from a cold start without hard braking (BTW be cautious!). Then stop the car and see if one or both the drums (reach for the drum from behind if you cannot touch it though the wheel) are too hot to touch. Some times it could be one drum getting significantly more heated than the other. If so you may have a minor brake bind in one or both wheels and the solution is to do an overhauling of master cylinders. Also remove the drum and check for any oil leaks inside.

sira · May 16, 2014

@sira - Drive for a few minutes from a cold start without hard braking (BTW be cautious!). Then stop the car and see if one or both the drums (reach for the drum from behind if you cannot touch it though the wheel) are too hot to touch. Some times it could be one drum getting significantly more heated than the other. If so you may have a minor brake bind in one or both wheels and the solution is to do an overhauling of master cylinders. Also remove the drum and check for any oil leaks inside.

Hi Rumesh, i did checked the breaks 2 days ago. break cylinders were ok . only was break dust there and cleanned them . i did bleed too. no there is no break binding i can confirm that. what my gut feelings is when the drums are hot breaks are poor. may be the shoes are not ment to be heated that much. is there any break shoe specifications?

Rumesh88 · May 16, 2014

Hi Rumesh, i did checked the breaks 2 days ago. break cylinders were ok . only was break dust there and cleanned them . i did bleed too. no there is no break binding i can confirm that. what my gut feelings is when the drums are hot breaks are poor. may be the shoes are not ment to be heated that much. is there any break shoe specifications?

This is expected but it is matter of how hot your drums get in normal (not when you are descending from Haputale for example) driving. For the brakes to reduce significantly, the drum surface and the pad should get heated above 200C or to the point you get the smell of burning resin. Both the pad and drum are meant to get heated up cos' that's how they produce brake torque. But if they get heated up unnecessarily for some reason then you may experience a fading in brake force.There are other failure mechanisms (oil boiling, heat related mechanical fade etc) but they are mostly applicable to heavy vehicles. In your case the most likely problem could be with the quality of the pad itself.

Davy · May 17, 2014

Have to agree with Rumesh88. I guess the best bet at this point would be to replace the brake shoes with a good set (preferably genuine or even a good Japanese set). There's a good chance that the new brake shoes will sort the issue, but if it does not, I'd say get the drums resurfaced as the next step.

Ek3 Ferio · May 19, 2014

Sorry about hijacking your thread sira, I recently replaced the rear break shoes in my ek3 96. The removed set was a duplicated set and they caused to wear out the drum not the pads, so mechanic told me it id good to reface the drum before fixing the new shoes. So refaced and fixed with new Japan FBL set of shoes from tech.

Now when I press the breaks, there is a tuk, tuk sound from left side, but the breaks are ok. Couldn't have a visit again to the garage after the repair yet.

Any idea what would be the sound? can it be the uneven drum reface?

Appreciate the help.

sira · June 1, 2014

There is a auto adjuster there . so it is not loud sound. so when you depress break few time it will adjust and stop. is that you are saying? or when you press the breal while driving?