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Hi everyone

This is my second post on the forum. I think this post will help a lot of people to reduce their fuel bill on petrol and diesel vehicles. Going forward we will have lot of vehicles but empty tanks.

I have been doing some R&D on engine efficiency and cleaner exhaust gazes for some years and decided to do an engine modification on my Prado to get some extra power and a full burn. For non-technical members it is simply modifying the air intake of the engine at a safer place to feed in HHO as a gas instead of normal air we breathe which is not 100% accounting to a full burn inside the combustion chamber.

HHO is a combustion rich gas but the generation mechanism should be done with absolute safety precautions out of water. Luckily I have a friend of mine who has a Garage (Unfortunately in Gampaha, which is a bit far away) and he was nice enough to listen to me (instead of ignoring me as if I have gone crazy) and comply with all the safety precautions and install the unit. Some pictures are attached for enthusiasts.

Results:

Increased fuel consumption by 20-25% (Mix of city and long distance). I refill a full tank earlier around 360KM range. Now it is 440-450KM range.

Increase of power. I can feel it in the depth of low end torch in the Engine which keeps going.

Reduced carbon emissions to a good as new engine. This is a 1999 Prado.

Less vibration on engine

Quick start when you crank the engine

Everyone should not jump into this modification. It is a NO for vehicles with warranty by agents (Those brand new shiny vehicles are not lucky enough to have this because they will say “You have modified the engine and now we are not responsible!!!”) So save it for a later date.

This is good for engines about 5-7 years and beyond. Vehicles of this age are having different relationships between the owners and the vehicle as such a bit of tweaking will not hurt any feelings J. There is absolutely no harm in doing this modification because it is done outside the whole system. Safety is first in this installation. Is this a real innovation which I should patent? Well absolutely no, because lot of people know about this but no one cares about the safety. Instead I though everyone interested should benefit from this because it helps going green and hugging trees a little.

Regards

Nana

post-12449-0-19849800-1365227669_thumb.j

post-12449-0-93251100-1365227708_thumb.j

Edited by The Don
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Hi everyone

This is my second post on the forum. I think this post will help a lot of people to reduce their fuel bill on petrol and diesel vehicles. Going forward we will have lot of vehicles but empty tanks.

I have been doing some R&D on engine efficiency and cleaner exhaust gazes for some years and decided to do an engine modification on my Prado to get some extra power and a full burn. For non-technical members it is simply modifying the air intake of the engine at a safer place to feed in HHO as a gas instead of normal air we breathe which is not 100% accounting to a full burn inside the combustion chamber.

HHO is a combustion rich gas but the generation mechanism should be done with absolute safety precautions out of water. Luckily I have a friend of mine who has a Garage (Unfortunately in Gampaha, which is a bit far away) and he was nice enough to listen to me (instead of ignoring me as if I have gone crazy) and comply with all the safety precautions and install the unit. Some pictures are attached for enthusiasts.

Results:

Increased fuel consumption by 20-25% (Mix of city and long distance). I refill a full tank earlier around 360KM range. Now it is 440-450KM range.

Increase of power. I can feel it in the depth of low end torch in the Engine which keeps going.

Reduced carbon emissions to a good as new engine. This is a 1999 Prado.

Less vibration on engine

Quick start when you crank the engine

Everyone should not jump into this modification. It is a NO for vehicles with warranty by agents (Those brand new shiny vehicles are not lucky enough to have this because they will say “You have modified the engine and now we are not responsible!!!”) So save it for a later date.

This is good for engines about 5-7 years and beyond. Vehicles of this age are having different relationships between the owners and the vehicle as such a bit of tweaking will not hurt any feelings J. There is absolutely no harm in doing this modification because it is done outside the whole system. Safety is first in this installation. Is this a real innovation which I should patent? Well absolutely no, because lot of people know about this but no one cares about the safety. Instead I though everyone interested should benefit from this because it helps going green and hugging trees a little.

Regards

Nana

nana 0665,

I spoke to this person will go and see his conversion to HHO. Very good project.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Edited by The Don

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Word of warning, I don't have time to look into this properly, but google's first hit -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#HHO_gas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHO_gas#Fringe_science_and_fraud

I'm not sure if this is the same thing referred to here, like I said, no time to check, but someone who knows please check it out.

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nana,

Any comments on what wikepedia says?????

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nana,

Any comments on what wikepedia says?????

yeah, other than this question,

does this system it self generate HHO or do we need to refill HHO externally?

if we need to fill HHO externally , then this is useless......

if it generate HHO using water then it is definitely useless..

i think you all knw this simple science.

  • electrolysis: 2 H2O → 2 H2 + O2
  • combustion: 2 H2 + O2 → 2 H2O

we started with 2 H2O and after two conversions we ended up with 2 H2O.

that means if two conversions are 100% efficient ,the energy you feed to generate HHO will be released at combustion.

assume that for the first conversion you feed energy from car battery.then car battery will be charged by system it self.simply no additional output.

if these few conversions are not 100% efficient then it will just consume energy.(the only external energy source is fuel )

i am not an expert but this is just like a "Joke" (my personal view).

Edited by MV-5
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Hi All

I did not realise this topic catching lot of attention. Some people think this is great,.. add some water and off we go in the car. This is not that imaginary as we feel. The system generates HHO and feeds the air intake and a combustion adhesive. Don't think of running without fossil fuel. It can only be done by a fuel cell. We will have these in road running versions in 2015 or so. But for those old engines this modification will help by having less thirst of petrol or diesel to run the same distance.

Wikipedia has given a good coverage. It is not easy as the pictures say. Only issue I saw was the conversion energy to output energy. This requires a validation. Most vehicles produce huge amount of AMPS on the alternator and what is not used is killed back to the earth. What this unit does is tap into such a source and produces HHO to make a 20-30% efficiency, which is wasted anyway.

What they have not mentioned enough is safety. Lot of people try doing this at home and fail or mess the electrical system of the car. HHO is a gas which needs to be produced when needed. No storing.

Regards

Nana

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Nana,

How does the system generate HHO?

Edited by CJ5

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Hi AllOnly issue I saw was the conversion energy to output energy. This requires a validation. Most vehicles produce huge amount of AMPS on the alternator and what is not used is killed back to the earth. What this unit does is tap into such a source and produces HHO to make a 20-30% efficiency, which is wasted anyway.

What they have not mentioned enough is safety. Lot of people try doing this at home and fail or mess the electrical system of the car. HHO is a gas which needs to be produced when needed. No storing.

Regards

Nana

I think car production companies R&D teams are sleeping. that is why we need to do this kind of after market changes to our vehicles.

at least they were unable to build up a system to decouple the alternator when it is not necessary.

one thing i know, normal air can be used to 100% fuel combustion. but there are some practical issues , ex: when engine revs 3000rmp , one piston will do 6000strokes per minute.

one stroke will get only 0.01 seconds(10 ms). within 10ms fuel and air mixture should be filled up and total exhaust should be done in next 10 ms.

due this time limitations system can not fully burn the fuel mixture.

in the other end of world they are doing research work to eliminate these problems. but they have recruited wrong people for their R&D teams.thats why they haven't uncover that HHO will increase the fossil fuel combustion.

enough jokes!

burning fuel to get heat as the energy output(to cook something) and internal combustion engine mechanical power output is totally different.

you all know that 78% nitrogen in the normal air mixture play a huge role in the combustion chamber.

in the compression stroke piston will compresses the air mixture and the very beginning of the power stroke there will be a ignition and due to this ignition this air mixture will burn itself and unburnt part(normal air) will expand rapidly . simply it is a explosion. that explosion will push the piston to produce the power.

nothing new, you all knew that.

Edited by MV-5

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Hi All

I did not realise this topic catching lot of attention. Some people think this is great,.. add some water and off we go in the car. This is not that imaginary as we feel. The system generates HHO and feeds the air intake and a combustion adhesive. Don't think of running without fossil fuel. It can only be done by a fuel cell. We will have these in road running versions in 2015 or so. But for those old engines this modification will help by having less thirst of petrol or diesel to run the same distance.

Wikipedia has given a good coverage. It is not easy as the pictures say. Only issue I saw was the conversion energy to output energy. This requires a validation. Most vehicles produce huge amount of AMPS on the alternator and what is not used is killed back to the earth. What this unit does is tap into such a source and produces HHO to make a 20-30% efficiency, which is wasted anyway.

What they have not mentioned enough is safety. Lot of people try doing this at home and fail or mess the electrical system of the car. HHO is a gas which needs to be produced when needed. No storing.

Regards

Nana

nana0665,

Your post confirms alternator is producing excess power. It is true but only when it is necessary.

Therefore there will be definitely fuel is used for extra generation of amperes.

DC electricity is necessary to produce HHO. To my knowledge most HHO generators consume 15 Amperes or more on 12 volts.

This has to be measured then there is some power is used from the engine. There will be a fuel consumption

If a vehicle has a RPM counter, when lights and AC is on at once, can notice a RPM change.

This is because the alternator starts to generate high amperage to compensate the applied load.

This is very common on small vehicles with three cylinders

The alternator produces a potential voltage but it does not flow unless there is a load connected up that needs power.

When nothing in your car needs power and the battery is full, the potential voltage is still being produced but there is no flow.

The voltage regulator does all that not the alternator. So there is no excess electricity, Is produced and fuel is saved.

Has this person done the test what I have mentioned?

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

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Members,

There is lot of negative posts on this subject on the net.

This person says he had experimented with few units with his expense. At last he has perfected one HHO unit

Which is used in his vehicle? Used for some time. No after effects to the engine.

He wants to advertise and go in for commercial production. Only thing he is far away in Nittambuwa.

Once there was a young boy from Galle produced a same unit.

Let him do this, we should encourage this type of new productions in SL.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

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Deja Vu!

They say the average Sri Lankan's memory span is about 3 weeks!

Remember this one?

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/10/33666_space.html

Exactly.

but mate, there is a forum member who has done this to his 1999 prado and improved the full tank mileage from 360km to 450km. and he tested this thoroughly. and he realize that there are some other advantages also like 'less engine vibration'.

So machan, here you and I don't have right to say that he is trying to cheat us.so then i still trust him. :music-smiley-010:

Edited by MV-5
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Exactly.

but mate, there is a forum member who has done this to his 1999 prado and improved the full tank mileage from 360km to 450km. and he tested this thoroughly. and he realize that there are some other advantages also like 'less engine vibration'.

So machan, here you and I don't have right to say that he is trying to cheat us.so then i still trust him. :music-smiley-010:

The intelligent young man who invented the water powered car got something like 300kms for 2 litres of water on his 1987 trad sunny, tested it thouroughly and had number of experts as well as the prime minister of sri lanka convinced that he had invented a vehicle running on water....

http://www.dailynews.lk/2008/07/16/news12.asp

so machan, no matter what u say, i will not be convinced. period.

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Hi members

Having little knowledge and commenting on a topic like this is not helping anyone. It is not very professional if one cannot justify the depth.

Sylvi's comments are good. Seems he knows the subject well. Answer to his question on the alternator: How do you know whether the gas conversion does not add more load on fuel burn - Yes we have to do an AMP load test while the engine is on idle with all electronics on full blow. Majority of the engines with over 1300CC pass this because the idle is set at an overburn position to maintain a certain balance. Most alternators are also very efficient and there is a constant oversupply even at idle, which gets grounded if it is not used. On engines that come without the step up motor, this test will fail if there is not enough amps. If it is a 3 wheeler - I expect problems such as the battery dying over time.

I do not want to comment about these paper articles because it has run into some controversy already. Certainly, what I have explained here will not stop the need to have petrol or diesel. I am not talking about a system that runs for miles with only water. Did I mention it anywhere? Chill out here before jumping. I did this on my own 1Kz Prado and shared results because I am an enthusiast and I like others to benefit if they WISH.

Most of my posts go on Toyota, Lexus and Mercedes forums but I thought Sri Lankans can benefit if some reach Auto Lanka. Forums are places for members to post educative topics. I am not a guy who will post "I fixed a blue pair of LED park lights - Have a look, very nice" type of posts. Those who want to take topics further can take their own cause of action. My next topic was about making bio diesel at home. Reading some feedback on this post made me wonder whether it is worth doing it.

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I do not want to comment about these paper articles because it has run into some controversy already. Certainly, what I have explained here will not stop the need to have petrol or diesel. I am not talking about a system that runs for miles with only water. Did I mention it anywhere? Chill out here before jumping. I did this on my own 1Kz Prado and shared results because I am an enthusiast and I like others to benefit if they WISH.

Great!

i am going to do the same thing to my vehicle.

then with the result,i am going to contact Toyota,GM,VW ....... and ask them "WTF are you doing in ur R&D teams, just look we have improved fuel combustion efficiency by 30% by injecting little amount of HHO".

i am pretty sure that they will be ready to die to know this secret.

small problem,my vehicle is not a 1999 prado.

Thanks mate.

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nana

I don't mean to be sarcastic and appreciate your stand of trying to share your experiences with fellow motoring enthusiasts on this forum. However I do have a BIG question mark as to the pertinent point raised by MV-5 as to why have not car manufacturers thought of incorporating this system in vehicles produced? Any comments on that would be highly appreciated.

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Members,

I visited this Mr. Sarath this morning had a lenghthy discussion on the few units he had assembled.

They all have a professional finish with high quality stuff available in SL.

He had one fitted into his Nissan Serena .Diesel vehicle which he started and demonstrated the unit.

That is the biggest unit which he had done. All others are smaller units. One three wheeler unit.

He says it draws 13 amperes. Nissan Serena Diesel engine. It is Negligible.

According to him after few months of experiment, he has perfected the unit.

I have seen this type of units made in USA also have the similar pattern.

I think he should present this unit to some authority to do a trial and encourage him.

To go in for more production of units. I have some pictures taken of the said unit

Will upload them once I come to Colombo. He is living about 50 kilometers from Colombo.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

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nana

I don't mean to be sarcastic and appreciate your stand of trying to share your experiences with fellow motoring enthusiasts on this forum. However I do have a BIG question mark as to the pertinent point raised by MV-5 as to why have not car manufacturers thought of incorporating this system in vehicles produced? Any comments on that would be highly appreciated.

I was just about to say the same thing

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Hi everyone

This is my second post on the forum. I think this post will help a lot of people to reduce their fuel bill on petrol and diesel vehicles. Going forward we will have lot of vehicles but empty tanks.

I have been doing some R&D on engine efficiency and cleaner exhaust gazes for some years and decided to do an engine modification on my Prado to get some extra power and a full burn. For non-technical members it is simply modifying the air intake of the engine at a safer place to feed in HHO as a gas instead of normal air we breathe which is not 100% accounting to a full burn inside the combustion chamber.

HHO is a combustion rich gas but the generation mechanism should be done with absolute safety precautions out of water. Luckily I have a friend of mine who has a Garage (Unfortunately in Gampaha, which is a bit far away) and he was nice enough to listen to me (instead of ignoring me as if I have gone crazy) and comply with all the safety precautions and install the unit. Some pictures are attached for enthusiasts.

Results:

Increased fuel consumption by 20-25% (Mix of city and long distance). I refill a full tank earlier around 360KM range. Now it is 440-450KM range.

Increase of power. I can feel it in the depth of low end torch in the Engine which keeps going.

Reduced carbon emissions to a good as new engine. This is a 1999 Prado.

Less vibration on engine

Quick start when you crank the engine

Everyone should not jump into this modification. It is a NO for vehicles with warranty by agents (Those brand new shiny vehicles are not lucky enough to have this because they will say You have modified the engine and now we are not responsible!!!) So save it for a later date.

This is good for engines about 5-7 years and beyond. Vehicles of this age are having different relationships between the owners and the vehicle as such a bit of tweaking will not hurt any feelings J. There is absolutely no harm in doing this modification because it is done outside the whole system. Safety is first in this installation. Is this a real innovation which I should patent? Well absolutely no, because lot of people know about this but no one cares about the safety. Instead I though everyone interested should benefit from this because it helps going green and hugging trees a little.

Regards

Nana

Hi Nana,

interesting post. A couple of Questions,

1- A '99 prado is an EFI engine right? how did you get around the O2 sensor issue? (reading too much O2 in the emmissions as a by-product of HHO combustion & dumping more fuel in?)

2- Whats your HHO output like?(ltrs/min?)

Edited by The Don
The quoted post contains contact details of a person offering commercial services yet to be proven

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Hi members

Most alternators are also very efficient and there is a constant oversupply even at idle, which gets grounded if it is not used.

Just to clarify a couple of points.

No alternator was ever designed to provide an "over supply" of power. All the alternators are provided with a regulator, either electro-mechanical or electronic type, to ensure that they supply just the right amount of power on demand thus ensuring that the engine does not waste fuel to generate any excess power which would have to be wasted elsewhere. There were magneto type generators with cutouts in much older vehicles which of course generated a bit of excess power ending up either overcharging the battery or had to be burned off by keeping the headlights on even in broad daylight!! I'm sure Mr. Sylvi would have lot to say on these. So basically a HHO generator running off the vehicle electrical system would invariably load the engine.

Then how do we expect an improvement in fuel efficiency?

Well, nana0665 tried the system on a 1999 Prado which did something like 360km on a full tank which is way below its design efficiency. On such vehicle if you try a HHO unit it will show an improvement because the improvement in combustion efficiency will out weight all other additional losses due to HHO unit. But for others with vehicles doing 500km on a full tank this unit will not do any good! Also this unit will not work with engines fitted with O2 sensors even if they are doing on 300km a full tank. (I take the design capacity of a tank for a run of 500km as the norm). I too agree that a HHO unit would improve combustion but only in engines with combustion inefficiencies!!!

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I too agree that a HHO unit would improve combustion but only in engines with combustion inefficiencies!!!

see the thing is, ICE combustion inefficiencies are pretty much an accepted norm. we waste a good chunk of available power as the mixture continues burning in the exhaust system. The basic premise of HHO is that it has a significantly faster burn rate, this in turn can act as a catalyst to quickly burn the standard Fuel/Air mixture.

actually, the same catalysing effect on the burn rate can be archieved by replacing HHO with H2. Google --> Hydrogen Enhanced Combustion

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nana0665, one thing you will have to realize about the AL forum is that there is a very low tolerance for "miraculous" modifications that provide 20-30% better performance (or economy or smoothness) or whatever, we've just seen too many bogus stories to jump in with enthusiasm.

So don't take offense if people choose to not believe you, that will be the case until at least a couple of people try it for themselves and find out if it works (Sylvi's opinion is not usually considered valid btw).

In sum, if it honestly has worked for you then good on you mate, please continue to experiment and keep us updated.

Also, please post the thread detailing how to make Bio-diesel at home, I for one am quite interested in seeing how it is done.

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Lovely. This discussion is now exciting me. I will verify some of the discussion threads. Postings on combustion timing, alternators and sensors are very good. These are the items to look out.

Specifics on the 1KZ TE engine, which is what I modified. The electronic part is only the pump pressure that ATTEMPTS to maintain an even lean supply throughout the range. It is not a fully blown EFI system like a common rail injection system. Therefore this modification does not complicate sensors. There are many posts on this. one good post is http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?10448-1KZ-TE-tuning-discussion. The engine responds to the HHO. RPM picks up for about 2 hours and the knob drops in back to about 700 on idle and corrects the reading mismatch. This is a very primitive EFI, bottom line.

On the sensors,,, EFI engines can take in HHO. Some shiny 5 series BMs have already got the taste of HHO in Europe. In such a scenario the sensor needs a circuit bypass depending on narrow band or wide band mode of the sensor. These can be verified on meter readings. However, I also noted less gains than on older engines with sensors on the table to play. A VOLO chip can further boost a sensor/EFI engine. I consider this a hassle to modify at the moment. This is the same reason I mentioned 5-7 years old and beyond on my first post.

On alternators, the regulation of power is correct. This is what keeps the power balanced without overcharging or under charging the system. The variable supply is managed in a combination of within the alternator and outside the alternator. The circuit within in nicely drawn on this link. http://alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm The regulator can adopt to the sensor. When the threshold breaks some engines with step up motors rev up the idle. This does not happen in majority of the vehicles I have done this test when someone attempts to take 10-15 Amps off a system.

Some people ask what the R&D teams have been doing… This is a modification left to users. Most of our vehicles did not comes with LPG options, Turbo Timers, Etc Etc did they? There are no organized industries to pump a small industry based electrolyte mixture other than from a guy like Sarath I mentioned. After sharing this knowledge he seems to have picked up well. I was convinced that he got the optimum HHO unit which throws out 800+ Ltrs per minute from 10-13 amps without modulators. This is adequate for a lean mixture of HHO:Air:Fuel. HHO is simply a fuel addictive.

Overall I feel this is a worth modification on engines.

Edited by nana0665

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see the thing is, ICE combustion inefficiencies are pretty much an accepted norm. we waste a good chunk of available power as the mixture continues burning in the exhaust system. The basic premise of HHO is that it has a significantly faster burn rate, this in turn can act as a catalyst to quickly burn the standard Fuel/Air mixture.

actually, the same catalysing effect on the burn rate can be archieved by replacing HHO with H2. Google --> Hydrogen Enhanced Combustion

My earlier post should have read "significant combustion inefficiencies". My apologies. That is the inefficiency in combustion is so significant that addition of HHO to the intake would have sufficient improvements to offset the losses incurred in producing HHO. In a modern ICE (Whether carb or EFI) engine the combustion inefficiency is minimized to the extent that is technically feasible without compromising other factors such as power, emissions etc.

BTW HHO is not a catalyst in this process but an additive. (A catalyst remains chemically unchanged after completing the process). Hence if you use an external additive like H2 which has been produced offline using a external power source, you can get better mileage. It is like using and additional fuel tank to supplement your existing one but not accounting for the volume you pumped into it.

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BTW HHO is not a catalyst in this process but an additive. (A catalyst remains chemically unchanged after completing the process). Hence if you use an external additive like H2 which has been produced offline using a external power source, you can get better mileage. It is like using and additional fuel tank to supplement your existing one but not accounting for the volume you pumped into it.

Catalyst was the wrong word. My bad.

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