Fuel Saving Modification

[Crosswind]

Rather than discuss and argue over the net about it, I am willing to give this guy a fair go.

If you (or your inventor) is willing, I am willing to supply a car (Petrol, EFI, old enough to have some engine wear but not too old) and fuel for a documented experiment on this device. But of course, I will need the help of some members of AL.

Here's the deal... we meet up at kottawa, fill her up and drive her all the way to Galle on E01.

Fill her up again in Galle, measure the fuel consumption.

Fix your HHO gadgematic afterwards, drive all the way back to Kottawa on E01

Fill her up again in Kottawa and measure the fuel consumption again with the device.

If the device gives 20-30% efficiency as claimed, then there should be a significant difference in the two readings. Whatever findings will be published in Autolanka/Youtube as it is.

Obviously your technician will be needed and someone who possesses a handycam will also be needed.

What do you say guys? Anyone whos willing to volunteer on this? Supra? Sylvi?

[Supra_Natural]

Rather than discuss and argue over the net about it, I am willing to give this guy a fair go.

If you (or your inventor) is willing, I am willing to supply a car (Petrol, EFI, old enough to have some engine wear but not too old) and fuel for a documented experiment on this device. But of course, I will need the help of some members of AL.

Here's the deal... we meet up at kottawa, fill her up and drive her all the way to Galle on E01.

Fill her up again in Galle, measure the fuel consumption.

Fix your HHO gadgematic afterwards, drive all the way back to Kottawa on E01

Fill her up again in Kottawa and measure the fuel consumption again with the device.

If the device gives 20-30% efficiency as claimed, then there should be a significant difference in the two readings. Whatever findings will be published in Autolanka/Youtube as it is.

Obviously your technician will be needed and someone who possesses a handycam will also be needed.

What do you say guys? Anyone whos willing to volunteer on this? Supra? Sylvi?

You know what, we might even be able to make a Motorque segment out of it... Regardless of that, I'm in, can do this on some weekend after the new year, if the OP is willing.

[67Dodge]

Lovely. This discussion is now exciting me. I will verify some of the discussion threads. Postings on combustion timing, alternators and sensors are very good. These are the items to look out.

Specifics on the 1KZ TE engine, which is what I modified. The electronic part is only the pump pressure that ATTEMPTS to maintain an even lean supply throughout the range. It is not a fully blown EFI system like a common rail injection system. Therefore this modification does not complicate sensors. There are many posts on this. one good post is http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?10448-1KZ-TE-tuning-discussion. The engine responds to the HHO. RPM picks up for about 2 hours and the knob drops in back to about 700 on idle and corrects the reading mismatch. This is a very primitive EFI, bottom line.

On the sensors,,, EFI engines can take in HHO. Some shiny 5 series BMs have already got the taste of HHO in Europe. In such a scenario the sensor needs a circuit bypass depending on narrow band or wide band mode of the sensor. These can be verified on meter readings. However, I also noted less gains than on older engines with sensors on the table to play. A VOLO chip can further boost a sensor/EFI engine. I consider this a hassle to modify at the moment. This is the same reason I mentioned 5-7 years old and beyond on my first post.

On alternators, the regulation of power is correct. This is what keeps the power balanced without overcharging or under charging the system. The variable supply is managed in a combination of within the alternator and outside the alternator. The circuit within in nicely drawn on this link. http://alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm The regulator can adopt to the sensor. When the threshold breaks some engines with step up motors rev up the idle. This does not happen in majority of the vehicles I have done this test when someone attempts to take 10-15 Amps off a system.

Some people ask what the R&D teams have been doing This is a modification left to users. Most of our vehicles did not comes with LPG options, Turbo Timers, Etc Etc did they? There are no organized industries to pump a small industry based electrolyte mixture other than from a guy like Sarath I mentioned. After sharing this knowledge he seems to have picked up well. I was convinced that he got the optimum HHO unit which throws out 800+ Ltrs per minute from 10-13 amps without modulators. This is adequate for a lean mixture of HHO:Air:Fuel. HHO is simply a fuel adhesive.

Overall I feel this is a worth modification on engines.

you know more than you let on dude --> when you mentioned Ignition timing =P ... i didnt see anyone post up a Q on that in the thread...

How did you tackle the ignition timing btw? how much ignition retard did your engine need?

I cant figure out how they work on EFI engines though with the O2 sensors though.

what would really be interesting is if you had reading from an EGT to compare along with a wideband O2 sensor

btw, 800ltr/pm? are you sure? thats a huge #!! im assuming yours is a dry-cell? how many plates?

[nana0665]

Sorry a typo 800ML p/m. 7 plates or 9 depending on situation. (Good question)

As for the Kottawa Challenge by some members - I will pass. Don't want to waste my energy proving the case to anyone because it is not the intention on the post, which occasionally becomes the wrong end of the stick to some members. I have different things to do... Does not interest me.

[CJ5]

Rather than discuss and argue over the net about it, I am willing to give this guy a fair go.

If you (or your inventor) is willing, I am willing to supply a car (Petrol, EFI, old enough to have some engine wear but not too old) and fuel for a documented experiment on this device. But of course, I will need the help of some members of AL.

Here's the deal... we meet up at kottawa, fill her up and drive her all the way to Galle on E01.

Fill her up again in Galle, measure the fuel consumption.

Fix your HHO gadgematic afterwards, drive all the way back to Kottawa on E01

Fill her up again in Kottawa and measure the fuel consumption again with the device.

If the device gives 20-30% efficiency as claimed, then there should be a significant difference in the two readings. Whatever findings will be published in Autolanka/Youtube as it is.

Obviously your technician will be needed and someone who possesses a handycam will also be needed.

What do you say guys? Anyone whos willing to volunteer on this? Supra? Sylvi?

I second that proposition, and count on me as a volunteer even with my handycam!!!

Come on Nana....let us all experience the benefits of what you have found out let us all share this!!!

Your declining the challenge only makes it obvious that you yourself are not sure as to how it would prove itself.

Edited April 8, 2013 by CJ5

[Crosswind]

Sorry a typo 800ML p/m. 7 plates or 9 depending on situation. (Good question) As for the Kottawa Challenge by some members - I will pass. Don't want to waste my energy proving the case to anyone because it is not the intention on the post, which occasionally becomes the wrong end of the stick to some members. I have different things to do... Does not interest me.

Its not a challenge, its a documented experiment.

Good luck finding someone to sell your HHO story.

[k9master]

I second that proposition, and count on me as a volunteer even with my handycam!!!

Why are you backing out mate? If this becomes a documented & successful experiment on AL you are looking at a massive following. Just browse through and see how many fuel efficiency threads opened here. Surely it will give you the backing to make this a huge commercial success. It even includes a sweet deal on Publicity on National TV? What more do you want?

If you are not interested in money, think of the environmental benefits, saving foreign exchange for the motherland from all the fuel imports. Whichever way you look at it you do need publicity.

So what crosswind and supra_natural are offering is a golden opportunity.

Please let us know if your intention of posting falls on another arena than whats given above.

Cheers,

K9M

[MV-5]

Sorry a typo 800ML p/m. 7 plates or 9 depending on situation. (Good question) As for the Kottawa Challenge by some members - I will pass. Don't want to waste my energy proving the case to anyone because it is not the intention on the post, which occasionally becomes the wrong end of the stick to some members. I have different things to do... Does not interest me.

too smart............

@Crosswind and CJ5,

please don't put ur life in this kind of risk machan, drive ur car in E01 with a magical equipment(if this gadget has been wrongly spelled by this magician ).

machan please don't do this.

Edited April 8, 2013 by MV-5

[Crosswind]

too smart............

@Crosswind and CJ5,

please don't put ur life in this kind of risk machan, drive ur car in E01 with a magical equipment(if this gadget has been wrongly spelled by this magician ).

machan please don't do this.

U r right.. I better back out of it machan... and for records please note that it's Crosswind who backed out and not Nana.

[CJ5]

. Don't want to waste my energy proving the case to anyone

Wasn't it you who started this thread trying to "prove your case" to everyone in theory that you had a marvolous fuel saving contraption?????

After all the "proof of the pudding is in the eating" as the aged old saying goes...how true!!!!

Edited April 8, 2013 by CJ5

[Rumesh88]

Sorry a typo 800ML p/m. 7 plates or 9 depending on situation. (Good question) As for the Kottawa Challenge by some members - I will pass. Don't want to waste my energy proving the case to anyone because it is not the intention on the post, which occasionally becomes the wrong end of the stick to some members. I have different things to do... Does not interest me.

Even the theoretical gas volume (both H2 and O2 added together) produced with a current of 15A at an ambient atmospheric pressure (101,325 pascals sea level standard) and temperature (Let's say 303 Kelvin in Colombo these days) is 174ml. This assumes an electrolysis efficiency of 100% which is not the case practically. How nana came across a figure of 800ml I do not understand? Those volunteering to do a documented test please take a note of this too.

[67Dodge]

Even the theoretical gas volume (both H2 and O2 added together) produced with a current of 15A at an ambient atmospheric pressure (101,325 pascals sea level standard) and temperature (Let's say 303 Kelvin in Colombo these days) is 174ml. This assumes an electrolysis efficiency of 100% which is not the case practically. How nana came across a figure of 800ml I do not understand? Those volunteering to do a documented test please take a note of this too.

this is true for certain conditions only though as i recall. The application of faradays laws is limited to continuos DC only is it not?.

Adding a PWM signal &/or a stepped ramp signal as an output is one exg of where LPM increases have been noted & the law isnt applicable, so no rules are broken.

[Rumesh88]

this is true for certain conditions only though as i recall. The application of faradays laws is limited to continuos DC only is it not?.

Adding a PWM signal &/or a stepped ramp signal as an output is one exg of where LPM increases have been noted & the law isnt applicable, so no rules are broken.

Faraday's laws are NOT limited to continuous DC. It is only for the ease of calculation that a constant DC current is used. Otherwise it is the area under the curve Current Vs Time regardless of the waveform which would give you the total charge. In whatever form it is, ultimately the current supplied ends up as so much of Coulombs of electrical charge. There is absolutely no way PWM or any other modulation on the current is going to breach the Faraday's law.

[anonymous]

Assuming its 800 ml of air per min:

A 1.5L 4-stroke engine idling at 600rpm uses 450L of air per minute. So additional 800ml per min cant do that much of a difference right??

[MV-5]

Well, nana0665 tried the system on a 1999 Prado which did something like 360km on a full tank which is way below its design efficiency.

This is a OT question, but i would like to ask this question( due to my lack of knowledge).

Rumesh, are you sure that 360km on full tank in 1999 prado is way below its design efficiency?

i doubt that because in the very first post nana said that

I have been doing some R&D on engine efficiency and cleaner exhaust gazes for some years and decided to do an engine modification on my Prado to get some extra power and a full burn.

that effort should be definitely appreciated. then this prado should not have this kind of inefficient system.at least it should be close to its designed efficiency.

please verify!

anyway it is ok to answer me later, i think it is better to let flow the thread with this HHO generation questions

Edited April 8, 2013 by MV-5

[VVTi]

This thread is epic, in an epic scale.

This beats all other fuel threads.... from Apsara units to fringe science...

Edited April 8, 2013 by VVTi

[The Don]

The OP has backed out from the opportunity to prove his theory beyond reasonable doubt.

The most important thing in a scientific experiment is the ability to repeat the experiment. I'm always a supporter of individuals of groups who innovate and come up with new ideas, but these ideas need to stand up to scrutiny by your peers.

The stage is still open for a response, but if none is forthcoming I wonder if we as a responsible forum should leave these type of information publicly available, because there are some who never read beyond the first post!

[Crosswind]

The stage is still open for a response, but if none is forthcoming I wonder if we as a responsible forum should leave these type of information publicly available, because there are some who never read beyond the first post!

You have a very valid point. I suggest we start by removing the contact details of the inventor.

[The Don]

You have a very valid point. I suggest we start by removing the contact details of the inventor.

Have already done that because that was technically advertising. It's the first thing I did when I read the post!

[Sylvi]

Members,

There are plenty of HHO Unit developers in the world which are not accepted by the manufactures.

Saw yesterday CPC had tried to import a unit to SL some literature.

To my surprise this person do not answer his mobile I tried several times now it is off.

Cannot understand?

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[The Don]

Members,

There are plenty of HHO Unit developers in the world which are not accepted by the manufactures.

Saw yesterday CPC had tried to import a unit to SL some literature.

To my surprise this person do not answer his mobile I tried several times now it is off.

Cannot understand?

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Sylvi, while giving this guy the opportunity to explain himself, I personally believe a lot of these techniques, gadgets are mere gimmicks. Modern engines particularly ECU controlled engines are very efficient and it's very difficult to exert more miles from them using external devices. Last nights episode of Fifth Gear tested about 5 of these devices and all of them provided no fuel saving whatsoever!

I don't think the OP anticipated the breath of scientific knowledge possessed by some of my members. And the scientific explanations provided seem to make sense.

The only real and practical way to increase fuel efficiency is by adjusting your driving style, and keeping your engine in optimum condition.

You should also stop jumping on every bandwagon that come your way You are only doing your already shaky reputation further harm by endorsing these gimmicks.

[Crosswind]

Members,

There are plenty of HHO Unit developers in the world which are not accepted by the manufactures.

Saw yesterday CPC had tried to import a unit to SL some literature.

To my surprise this person do not answer his mobile I tried several times now it is off.

Cannot understand?

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Mr. Wijesinghe,

Seriously can't you understand why the inventor's phone is off? I hope you are not that naive.

Sincerely,

Crosswind

[NZer]

Mr. Wijesinghe,

Seriously can't you understand why the inventor's phone is off? I hope you are not that naive.

Sincerely,

Crosswind

nicely said

[Sylvi]

Mr. Wijesinghe,

Seriously can't you understand why the inventor's phone is off? I hope you are not that naive.

Sincerely,

Crosswind

Crosswind,

There is no reason for me to be naive. I always go forward. If I want to do a experiment.

With any equipment to get better performance. With my own money.

Not failed so far any modification's done in engineering units. Auto and Industrial.

I did not log into this forum this morning due to some of my home A/C matters.

The person who showed me the unit gave me a call today, morning he informed me. His battery was down therefore that he could not answer to me.

I wanted and informed him on the first day to inform to the person who posted this topic (nana0665) to have a conversation with me.

Because he did not give his contact to me when I requested.

He informed me ( FUEL Saving Modification nana0665,) had tried to contact me but there was no answer from my telephone.

My observations.

They have spend some money and done this experiment. had made few units.The two people whom I met, one person is a young Mechanic.

Other person has some knowledge in alternative fuel saving units. He told me he installs, have successfully installed bio Gas industrial units.

Person behind Fuel Saving Modification nana0665, I think he is the investor. Not 100% positive.

I am always interested in fuel saving methods. That is the reason I went all the way to see the unit.

I have pictures of all what I have taken. My post # 17 I posted on 7th from Jaela to this forum.

Did not want to post pictures to the forum later, because of the negative posts from the moderators. This will be advertising.

One A/L member rang me up this morning wanted to find out of the unit he is in Aircraft engineering.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Crosswind]

Mr. Wijesinghe,

Have you observed whether the device actually works?

That is, have they demonstrated a vehicle's fuel consumption (or they could even demonstrate it with a generator!) WITH and WITHOUT the device?

As a highly experienced person in the automotive industry, shouldn't this be the observation you should be making?

Don't you think it misleads forum members if you endorse devices without actually knowing whether they work?

Sincerely,

Crosswind