Toyota Hilux

[knightowl]

Can somebody enlighten me about toyota cabs. I am confused now with various opinions form various people.

What is the best cab in terms of,

a) Vigo or Non Vigo [very conflicting views]

Imported from England or Thailand [rusting issue with UK ones apparently, but cars in UK never get the under carriage

washed unlike in sri lanka, is this really true?]

c) 3L or 2.5L

d) Manual or Auto [ Personal preference I know but what do you think]

c) Do I need to change my driving license? [only light vehicles at the moment]

d) Is there a luxury tax involved?

When you dont have money you know exactly what to buy. But when you have the money it is really difficult to choose what to buy!

[MoneyMaker]

A) Non Vigo

England Hilux I think it's the invincible is built in South Africa as oppose to Vigo which is from Thailand.

Obviously the one from south Africa has better build quality. The rust problem would need be take care of if any by doing an anti corrosive coating to the under carriage. Plus with the ability to import a cab as old as 5 years your better off going for a 2009/10 year of manufacture to protect yourself form the rust problem.

3.0 automatic is a better option with size, torch, second hand value and all purpose running (traffic etc..)

C) C,C1 is good enough unless it has a Lorry number plate.

D) Not 100% sure but as far as I know there is no luxury tax.

[tiv]

Well starting off with the Vigo thing, well the only difference in the Vigos are that they've got the hideous "bling" and the later ones have the VGS Turbo

The Vigo is the Thailand version. The HL2.HL3,Invincible are the UK variants.

If the UK versions were properly maintained there is no rust issue, they have a special undercoat periodically done to cope up with the salt spray used during winter, besides the Navaras have the severe rust issues..

Apparently the 3l is a tad bit powerful but reviews say they have a severe injector failure issue (reference http://en.wikipedia....oyota_KD_engine)

Have not heard this issue in SL anyway

2.5l almost bullet proof, mind you it is not that economical if you are heavy footed, besides I feel super diesel is mandatory..

Manual, my preference, allows you to harness the output properly

The heavy vehicle issue came with some two door versions and smart cabs (two door+ the smaller doors)

Double cabs have the dual purpose registration

Luxury tax? it has the semi luxury tax; starting off with 50,000 and halving every year..

Edited September 20, 2012 by tiv

[iRage]

Well starting off with the Vigo thing, well the only difference in the Vigos are that they've got the hideous "bling" and the later ones have the VGS Turbo

I work for a humanitarian-aid organization and a couple of years back (late 2009) we bought 6 VIGOs whilst operating in a South East Asian country east of Indonesia and just north of Australia.

- Straight out of TMC-Thailand the bling crap was not offered but the dealer asked if we would like to have the blingy ugly lens/mirror/anythign else that you can think of caps.

- A strange thing happened...the fuel system (starting from the pump to the injectors) failed on 4 of the 6 units and all the units had done less than 2000kms. Thankfully Toyota replaced the fuel systems of all 6 units. Their explanation for the failure ? Apparently the specific model they gave us was fitted with components designed for the African market due to component backlogs and high demand for the vehicles.Apparently the African market components were not resilient enough to tolerate the poor fuel quality of the country we were in(okay...the quality of diesel was a significant issue). Ironically another larger organization that had brought in hundreds of white Prados and Hilux cabs with huge black 2 lettered markings on them on either side got their Hilux units sourced out of South Africa and they worked beautifully. I always thought the units for Africa were sourced out of S.A so why would VIGOs be shipped out there; I happen to be in East Africa right now and the hilux cabs over here are from SA...except for the few recon ones bought in.

I guess at the end of the day there irrespective of where the vehicle originated from there is a possibility that components were mixed and matched and all that can be hoped for is that the manufacturer's quality control mechanisms catch whatever potential problems that may exist (this does not always does not happen as in our case so you will always have one or two bad apples) .

[alpha17]

Go for a navara

[SHAI]

Go for a navara

Seriously? The man wants to know about Toyota and you are telling him to buy a Nissan? LOL !!

[The Don]

I work for a humanitarian-aid organization and a couple of years back (late 2009) we bought 6 VIGOs whilst operating in a South East Asian country east of Indonesia and just north of Australia.

- Straight out of TMC-Thailand the bling crap was not offered but the dealer asked if we would like to have the blingy ugly lens/mirror/anythign else that you can think of caps.

- A strange thing happened...the fuel system (starting from the pump to the injectors) failed on 4 of the 6 units and all the units had done less than 2000kms. Thankfully Toyota replaced the fuel systems of all 6 units. Their explanation for the failure ? Apparently the specific model they gave us was fitted with components designed for the African market due to component backlogs and high demand for the vehicles.Apparently the African market components were not resilient enough to tolerate the poor fuel quality of the country we were in(okay...the quality of diesel was a significant issue). Ironically another larger organization that had brought in hundreds of white Prados and Hilux cabs with huge black 2 lettered markings on them on either side got their Hilux units sourced out of South Africa and they worked beautifully. I always thought the units for Africa were sourced out of S.A so why would VIGOs be shipped out there; I happen to be in East Africa right now and the hilux cabs over here are from SA...except for the few recon ones bought in.

I guess at the end of the day there irrespective of where the vehicle originated from there is a possibility that components were mixed and matched and all that can be hoped for is that the manufacturer's quality control mechanisms catch whatever potential problems that may exist (this does not always does not happen as in our case so you will always have one or two bad apples) .

The quality of fuel caused serious problems for the D4D systems and even in Australia there were reports of failures. I find it difficult to buy the story that they fitted components destined for the African market and this caused problems because they use parts which can tolerate the poor fuel quality there (but SA fuel is probably pretty good). Most likely they either sourced from another supplier due to part shortages (caused by Thai floods, Japanese Earthquake) or they used parts used for the Japanese market.

[knightowl]

can somebody give me the current price for a 2.5l hilux, imported for a permit, 2008, allegedly driven only 8000km? With a canopy.

[iRage]

The quality of fuel caused serious problems for the D4D systems and even in Australia there were reports of failures. I find it difficult to buy the story that they fitted components destined for the African market and this caused problems because they use parts which can tolerate the poor fuel quality there (but SA fuel is probably pretty good). Most likely they either sourced from another supplier due to part shortages (caused by Thai floods, Japanese Earthquake) or they used parts used for the Japanese market.

We found it hard to believe too...especially on the implication that the "African market" would have had better fuel ? Granted SA does have good fuel, but from what I have seen most other parts of African does not (in Tanzania and Zambia the fuel sucks)...so was a hard story to fathom, but we didn't make a fuss, or care about it as they did fix it for us for nothing and was pretty trouble free after that. This was in late 2009 so before the floods that crippled everyone, but then Thailand gets flooded so often maybe there was a flood back then that I can't remember of... but they didn't/couldn't claim that. Now that you brought up the floods...last year a close family friend of mine in Japan ordered a brand new VOXY which got delayed on its delivery date because of the floods as some parts are out of Thailand. So...yeah...cars are from all over the dang planet these days

[knightowl]

for those who are looking for a cab.

Today i visited several places. In one place all were imported from the UK. All the the cabs were heavily used. I know being in the UK for a long time cabs are bought buy builders and bound to be heavily used.

I also visited other places where the cabs were imported from Taiwan, they were immaculate. Like in Sri Lanka I think cabs are used in Taiwan like cars! So the general consensus is that don't buy UK cabs because of the rust issue. I think it is the heavy usage!

I dont really buy in to this rust issue. For all the years I spent in the UK my cars never got an under carriage wash. They just don't do it. The services by agents does not include any washing. Only wash you get is from Eastern European migrants who just give a body wash for 3£. Never a uner carriage wash. Nobody even mentions rust issues.

[milinda]

Ask for a premium wash @ any service station, they come with under carriage wash; would cost you 6 pounds though

[Supra_Natural]

for those who are looking for a cab.

Today i visited several places. In one place all were imported from the UK. All the the cabs were heavily used. I know being in the UK for a long time cabs are bought buy builders and bound to be heavily used.

I also visited other places where the cabs were imported from Taiwan, they were immaculate. Like in Sri Lanka I think cabs are used in Taiwan like cars! So the general consensus is that don't buy UK cabs because of the rust issue. I think it is the heavy usage!

I dont really buy in to this rust issue. For all the years I spent in the UK my cars never got an under carriage wash. They just don't do it. The services by agents does not include any washing. Only wash you get is from Eastern European migrants who just give a body wash for 3£. Never a uner carriage wash. Nobody even mentions rust issues.

I don't think we import double cabs from Taiwan. I think you mean Thailand, two different countries.

[The Don]

for those who are looking for a cab.

Today i visited several places. In one place all were imported from the UK. All the the cabs were heavily used. I know being in the UK for a long time cabs are bought buy builders and bound to be heavily used.

I also visited other places where the cabs were imported from Taiwan, they were immaculate. Like in Sri Lanka I think cabs are used in Taiwan like cars! So the general consensus is that don't buy UK cabs because of the rust issue. I think it is the heavy usage!

I dont really buy in to this rust issue. For all the years I spent in the UK my cars never got an under carriage wash. They just don't do it. The services by agents does not include any washing. Only wash you get is from Eastern European migrants who just give a body wash for 3£. Never a uner carriage wash. Nobody even mentions rust issues.

Well, if you look at your steel wheels (alloys do not show rust) or the components like brakes axles, suspension etc you will see they start to rust in the UK compared to the rest of the car which stays pristine. Now if you don't rise on snowy gritted roads it is not an issue and to be honest even if you do in modern cars there is adequate rust proofing to prevent major problems. Its just surface rust and can look bad to somebody expecting a brand new car.

Vehicles used in farms or in the country side with dirt roads funny enough do not have this problem because they are not usually used in gritted roads.

You can get genuine low mileage examples from the UK as well (mostly sold by leasing, HP companies or bought for projects and sold off after, take for example all the vehicles bought in for the Olympics) but most are high mileage like you say. The only way to be sure is if it has full Toyota service history and you check with a UK based Toyota dealer.

But people prefer the UK imports because they perceive them to be hardier as they originate from South Africa.

[MRM]

Hi I have a HL2 which I personally imported with UK service history from the dealer 55,000 miles when imported , my under carriage doesn't have any rust and UNLIKE the one's sold locally which the under carriage is painted. And it drives like brand new no noises etc...

The biggest issue is the mileage as most of the ones which are in SL for sale have done more than 100,000 miles + but the meter reads around 30,000- 40,000 miles. No point only looking at the BV certificate as that can be altered in UK inseams , always ask for the service history otherwise you are asking for trouble .

UK imported hilux have more options such as dual air bags, Rear Diff lock, headlight adjusters compared to Thai spec. If you are a off road fan the Diff lock comes in very handy .

Cheers.

[Fixzit]

Because there have been few discussion above regarding fuel quality, I'd like to mention few things about it. Being a Nissan Navara owner and a big fan of it, I had to do quite a bit of reading about this because even before buying my Navara i knew I might have to face few issues with Diesel quality in SL. Ok here is what I found out..

When it comes to diesel quality..2 important factors.. Cetane Level and Sulfur level...(Assuming there is very less to no water mixed that is)

Navara Needs a Cetane level of 50+ according to user manual, and having a Common-rail Turbo engine it needs 500ppm of sulfur or less...

In SL, Normal diesel is 3000ppm (Way above the emission standards) and 46 in Cetane,This is not a big issue for non common rail engines because their injectors are not that sensitive to Sulfur and they are not that expensive compared, also they need a bit more sulfur in diesel to lubricate the parts inside the pump (Still 3000ppm is way too higher..anyways) But CR engines specially fuel pump and injectors are very sensitive and they will clog up or rust away very fast for high sulfur and once that happens only option is to replace at a huge cost.

Fuel companies give away their Cetane values without no problem at all but they are a bit reluctant when it comes to Sulfur content. As far as I know (Correct me if If I'm wrong) in UK you can buy ULSD (Ultra low sulfur Diesel) which is about 50ppm and are recommended to newer diesel cars. I live in Melbourne at the moment and unfortunately Aussi fuel companies don't care about sulfur content at all. One of my friend works at a fuel station and he says the pump which says low sulfur diesel and the pump for truck diesel are connected to the same dip underground. Probably that's why some Navara's having an issue here and also get the DPF clogged up more often..

Anyways the point is..

If you are in SL and use a car with a common-rail diesel engine..Use only Super Diesel..which is 53 in Cetane and 500ppm in Sulfur..(If it does comply with what CEPETCO says that is.. but you don't have an option)

I don't like to mention names but I*C EX***Mile Diesel is the same as Normal diesel with just a fuel additive so will not benefit your CR Engine

It wouldn't be that hard to understand when you compare the price difference anyways..So it's a question of spending few extra rupees now? or spend probably few laks later..

I only use Super Diesel on mine since the day i bought it, my friend bought a Navara after 2 weeks i bought mine and he never listened to me..and was using normal diesel. Few days back he drove mine and realized that he should have listened to me before because he's got so much less pulling power compared to mine and also suffer from a rough idle..but i guess it's too late now..

Sorry if this is too long guys.. Hope it helped someone...

Edited October 3, 2012 by Fixzit

[alpha17]

I plan to buy a hilux,d4d model,brand new imported one.what is the lowest price of a hilux?(2wd is ok)i want 2 know mainly about

-fuel economy

-common problems

-maintainence

-overall pros and cons

i used the search option,but i couldnt find about it clearly.so plz post your opinions.

p.s -other than buying a 2wd hilux would it be suitable to go for a kyron manual?

[alpha17]

Plz note that i want a 2005 or above USED one.cheers!

[The Don]

Dhork, I have merged your thread into this one. Kindly learn to use the search functionality rather than spawning new threads.

[Pericles]

I think we have some posts on the D4D from earlier, specifically about fuel quality and stuff, tho I don't recall offhand if we talked too much about the truck. There might be some older posts, check for Vigo and Smart Cab. Also look under Navara threads, the Hilux always comes up when talking alternatives.

[Pericles]

Dhork, I have merged your thread into this one. Kindly learn to use the search functionality rather than spawning new threads.

Whoops Haven't been keeping up enough.

[knightowl]

Well, my discussion on the above topic seems to have disappeared!

Here is my problem. I paid an advance for a UK imported Cab. As someone pointed out there is obvious rust issue. And the milage is suspiciously low. No service records available. I am having my doubts!!!!. It is obvious that those cabs have gone through a lot.

Where as i looked at several cabs at K***gala all imported from Thailand, looks and feels brand new and really eye pleasing. The milage wasn't that low either. The difference between UK imported cabs and thailand ones were couple of lakhs.

Now I feels like giving up on my advance and go for a thailand imported Vigo rather than a Invincible.

What are your opinions?????

[iRage]

At the end of the day I don't think you would get a fair answer on what exactly you should be buying as you are asking for general opinions (which were expressed in your previous thread plus a few other threads) and on top of that none of us have seen the vehicles that you are referring to to give you any reasonable assessment.<YES ! I said to to !!>

In your old thread I believe the general summation was that let it be from Thailand or UK (built in South Africa) you have your fair share of issues (some of which are specific to the location that it was used in and it seems like you are trading one set of problems to another...at the end of the day these are used trucks). So, basically, depending on the vehicles YOU looked at a certain "UK import" might have been in a better condition than a "Thailand import" and similarly a "Thailand import" might have been in a better condition than a "UK import".

Okay..my opinion: Any car you are buying: Avoid shady dealers and deals (I think you can figure out where to avoid even if your life depended upon it by doing some research), be mindful of where the car came from but just do not go on that basis.Give the vehicles you have shortlisted a good and complete inspection; now that you have been given a general set of problems to look out for it should be a little bit easier. If you don't know much about cars find someone who does (a friend of a friend or maybe even a kind fellow AL member might be able to help you out).

and finally..once you do buy it ENJOY your new ride

[VTEC]

Like iRage said, not all UK imports have issues and likewise not all Thailand imports are issues free. One of my relatives bought one the Thai imports and it looked all good from the outside, nothing to complain. But just 2 days on when he went for the service at Toyota they found all sorts of problems. There was a certain dent underneath affecting the suspension, sort of a knock and the gear oil tube (don't know the exact terms) was leaking. The repair estimation was about 250k+. Luckily he was able to return it and get his money back since the seller was known to him. Ive seen Cabs in Thailand and I can tell you that generally they are nt looked after that well. I would presume personal UK vehicles to be looked after better than the Thais. Also the UK cabs have a certain high quality feel than the Thai counterpart, and the Highest grade "Invincible" have more options too.

The UK cabs which are brought down in 100s by all the big car sales are the worst of the crop. Mostly the highway patrol vehicles and ones used by other government / construction companies for very cheap prices. You can know some from the stickers and other badges on the cabs (if not already removed by the car sales). These are removed and the double cabs re-painted etc. Some of them even convert the low end HL2 ones to look like HL3 and Invincible. This the reason you find UK cabs in such bad shape because you would have seen them in these big car sales. We had a look around these large car sales too which had a whole load of cabs when we were looking for our cab and we felt the same as you did, the cabs were pretty bad. But when we started looking at the UK personal imports we found them very good. Specially the ones with service history etc. We finally found one in very good condition, with complete service history, all manuals cd etc and also personally used in uk. Mileage was authenticated through the mot tests and other websites and if personally used in UK it's pretty low. There was a a tiny bit of rust here and there nothing major, just with normal usage (our Japan imported van had much more visible rust than this,) but got it certified by Toyota and its not the corrosive rust which ppl tend to think. It's a thin layer which can be scraped off even the Toyota guys agreed, the rust issue has been inflated. Though maybe true in some vehicles.

What I mean to say is if you look around and avoid the sales which import junk you will see that there are pretty good UK double cabs available. specially the invincible which is pretty good. else get some to look one for you in the UK and get it down. that way you are assured of the condition too.

Cheers.

Edited October 6, 2012 by VTEC

[Magnum]

Well starting off with the Vigo thing, well the only difference in the Vigos are that they've got the hideous "bling" and the later ones have the VGS Turbo

The Vigo is the Thailand version. The HL2.HL3,Invincible are the UK variants.

If the UK versions were properly maintained there is no rust issue, they have a special undercoat periodically done to cope up with the salt spray used during winter, besides the Navaras have the severe rust issues..

Apparently the 3l is a tad bit powerful but reviews say they have a severe injector failure issue (reference http://en.wikipedia....oyota_KD_engine)

Have not heard this issue in SL anyway

2.5l almost bullet proof, mind you it is not that economical if you are heavy footed, besides I feel super diesel is mandatory..

Manual, my preference, allows you to harness the output properly

The heavy vehicle issue came with some two door versions and smart cabs (two door+ the smaller doors)

Double cabs have the dual purpose registration

Luxury tax? it has the semi luxury tax; starting off with 50,000 and halving every year..

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, if the Thailand models come with VGS turbo what kind of turbo does the other ones come with?

edit: what difference does a VGS turbo make?

Edited September 11, 2014 by Magnum

[SanjeevMahen]

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, if the Thailand models come with VGS turbo what kind of turbo does the other ones come with?

edit: what difference does a VGS turbo make?

Actually it's called a VN turbo.

I got a normal intercooler turbo 2.5ltr hilux of my own. Once I got to drive a 2.5ltr intercooler VN turbo and the difference in power was obvious.

As per wiki, the 2KD VN Turbo engines(2.5ltr intercooled) produces 142HP versus 118HP on the normal turbo (intercooled).

I shall let some more well versed on the techie side to explain the technicalities of the VN turbo/sensor.

From Wikipedia:

2KD-FTV[edit]

Appearing in 2001, the 2KD-FTV is the 2nd generation of the KD series of engine with a smaller 2.5 L (2494 cc) displacement.

The displacement of this engine is based on the previous 2L engine. Bore remains the same 92 mm but stroke is increased to 93.8 mm. It has 16 valves and is a DOHC engine with a turbocharger and intercooler.

It produces 101 horsepower (75 kW) at 3400 rpm and 191.7 lb·ft (260 N·m) of torque at 1600-3600 rpm without an intercooler and 118 hp (88 kW) at 3400 rpm and 239.85 ft·lbf (325 N·m) of torque at 1600-3600 rpm for the intercooled version. Toyota Thailand, however, has updated the turbocharger to variable nozzle turbo (VNT) with intercooler. This increased the horsepower to 142 hp (106 kW) at 3400 rpm and torque to 343 N·m (253 lb·ft) at 1600-2800rpm.^[1]

Compression ratio is 18.5:1. Redline of this engine is 4400 RPM. This engine also uses D-4D Common Rail (Common rail direct fuel injection ) technology. The manufacturers default injection timing is 6.5 deg before TDC. The only major changes from the 1KD-FTV to the 2KD-FTV was the bore and the stroke.