Increasing Fuel Economy Using Hcs & Hho.

[67Dodge]

Hi Gents,

let me share a bit of background about this topic, be warned this has some tech involved! but ide like to think Srilankans are upto the task. =)

in the 1930's there was a automotive mech by the name of Pogue who developed a carburator which gave an estimated 200MPG to any vehicle it was used on. it worked quite simply by heating up the fuel before the carb. He patended it, made demonstrator models of it ect. Guess who shows up to buy this patent? an oil company! .... Story has it that its soon after that Lead was introduced as an additive to Gasoline as a "Knock suppresant", & anybody who stumbled onto this discovery thereafter had very short lived results at creating a similar Supercarburator.

apparently, though Pogue thought his carb archieved the effect by vapourising the Gasoline, what pogue had really stumbled on was a method of further refinement of the Fuel by a method known in the oil refinement industry as "CRACKING". this Hydrocarbon Cracking System or HCS breaks down the hard burning longer chain Hydrocarbon molecules to smaller, faster & cleaner burning molecules like Methane ect.

in short, much of the gas we use goes unburned/un-utilised due to these heavier chains burning last. pogue made a carb which broke it to smaller particles which resulted in a cleaner burn, & astounding fuel efficiency! the oil companies of course did not like this, bought out his patent, shelved it, & introduced an additive in the form of Lead under the pretext of "Detonation suppressant" which also served to suppress this "cracking" & won the battle against increasing mileage. when lead was phased out, they maintained this Status Quo with the emergence of EFI setups (coinciding with the reduction of lead additives) which made it harder to modify for the average joe.

today this news is slowly starting to raise its head again on the internet as ppl digup facts & articles of other setups like this as well.

today, ppl in indonesia are making an amazing resurgence of this tech, claiming between 50%-150% increase in fuel efficiency!! (guess nobody has paid any officials off to stop it).

my recent web searches showed an article where apparently a SL government Engineer was also involved in experimenting with a HCS sytem on Gov vehicles!!! (details are very sketchy for tis though)

what do you guys think? have you all come across any info of "our" guys experimenting with it? outube is full of vids on this though!

[Crosswind]

What I think, is you must be smoking some good sh*t

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/fish3.htm

There ought to be a law against people who spread nonsencical rumours.

[67Dodge]

your conclusion: that this is a nonsensical rumour, how did you reach that? by two mins of googling? .... try looking at the fundamentals of the process. that should have given you a better clue....

[jdnet]

Oh no. Not this again.

[Crosswind]

your conclusion: that this is a nonsensical rumour, how did you reach that? by two mins of googling? .... try looking at the fundamentals of the process. that should have given you a better clue....

2 minutes of googling, 1 minute of common sense and a basic understanding of the laws of thermodynamics.

[Supra_Natural]

your conclusion: that this is a nonsensical rumour, how did you reach that? by two mins of googling? .... try looking at the fundamentals of the process. that should have given you a better clue....

The conclusion was reached by reading through the links which he provided... This miracle carb story has been around for oh, i dunno 50 odd years give or take... If you READ the links maybe you'll see why crosswind called it a nonsensical rumour.

[67Dodge]

@ supranatural, believe me, ive read those links along time ago... and countless others claiming both the pro's & cons of the system.

im not intersted in getting into a pissing match based on a concept ive not proven meself, the purpose of this thread was to see if anyone was interested in actually analysing the mechanics claimed of it. to me the mechanics (gleaned from significantly more than reading just two links) of it seems sound.

@ crosswind, if you understand the thermo side of this in 5 whole min's(im rounding up) your a much smarter guy than me i'll concede straight up.

[GayanR]

I dnt knw but from common sense how on earth this can be achieved from a carb modification 200mpg = that is 321km for 3.7liter. even a 100cc bike find it hard to achieve.

[67Dodge]

I dnt knw but from common sense how on earth this can be achieved from a carb modification 200mpg = that is 321km for 3.7liter. even a 100cc bike find it hard to achieve.

thats a misconception right there i think. its not so much a carb modification as a modification of the fuel before it is metered into the carb.

just have a look online for the boiling point of gasoline. chances are you will get not a single point, but a range. this is due to its mixed nature of hydrocarbon chains, some need lower energy to burn, others need a higher energy to burn.

• all of us know that LPG burns cleaner & as a result e engines run smoother right? thats cuz its a small chain Hydrocarbon.
  
• cracking the fuel using HEAT or by a Catalyst is a documented process of creating methane & other natural gasses. IE:- we break GASOLINE --->> METHANE & Natural Gasses (Small chain HC)
  
• i added HHO into the mix cuz that proccess releases H2 gas, which is also an aid in Fuel Cracking.
  

comon guys, im not really talking alien science here,... just plain fact. is it the Abhorence to any topic on fuel efficeincy on this forum that is the reason for the snubb?

heres a link for those who are open minded, ive got plenty of em btw!

http://www.hhoforums.com/showthread.php?t=6594

[The Stig]

I dnt knw but from common sense how on earth this can be achieved from a carb modification 200mpg = that is 321km for 3.7liter. even a 100cc bike find it hard to achieve.

Wrong logic, dont get me wrong the story he posted is utter BS but your argument is wrong. The reason a bike a gets more mileage is because the weight of a bike is much less than that of a car, less weight = less power required = less fuel required, that has nothing to do with engine components.

As for the whole story like i said before utter BS. But there are ways to improve fuel economy if somehow we find a way of a more efficient energy conversion system. i.e the internal combustion engine is a very inefficient machine, only 20% of the energy is actually usable the rest is wasted on vibrations, heat etc. One of the main reasons why we are moving towards alternative fuel vehicles

Edited May 25, 2012 by The Stig

[chan5]

Feel sorry for people like you who have ruined the tax money on education.

You must be somebody who has done commerce for AL? Aren't You,

now trying to be a scientist, ?

As far as i know there's a law called energy conservation law in physics.

It says , the energy can not be created or destroyed.only conversions of forms.

So the thermal waste of energy and the real work being done by engine is almost closer to today MPG Values.the issue is the thermal waste is so high, probably upto 70-60 percents. Hybrids are using that energy which on waste by breaks basically.

Read some thermodynamics, Basics of physics, and some enthalpy values of organic chemistry.

You'll see the.

And the patent right is only for 18years after the invention and by the time of now anybody can duplicate the product.

So i think that scientists in toyota , or PSA OR VW GroupS Who are so concern about hybrids are just dumb idiots who has forgotten the marvellous product.

Have some common sense when you live , so others can't cheat on you.you're just a common sri lankan who goes after myths...just becaure others do ,

let me guess,

you drive a Corolla...?

Edited May 26, 2012 by chan5

[Sylvi]

Members,

I have examined this HHO powered vehicles in USA personally. I remember last year one chap gave write up on the news papers that he had made a system in srilanka. I do not know the after effects of this system to engines. There are lot of advertisements on the web HHO generators working with water.As this topic had come up I post a web site on the above subject.

http://www.hydroclubusa.com/hhoworks.html

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[67Dodge]

wow!,... i dont believe in turning the right cheek, so, my turn,...

Feel sorry for people like you who have ruined the tax money on education. (dont worry, my education has not cost your tax rupees a single cent)

You must be somebody who has done commerce for AL? Aren't You, (wrong, try again at the opposite end of the scale)

now trying to be a scientist, ? (haha, now that is indeed funny)

As far as i know (your kidding right? , you got the nerve to slam on me and you throw up a few disjointed terms as proof of debunking the thread topic?) there's a law called energy conservation law in physics.

It says , the energy can not be created or destroyed.only conversions of forms.

So the thermal waste of energy and the real work being done by engine is almost closer to today MPG Values.the issue is the thermal waste is so high, probably upto 70-60 percents. Hybrids are using that energy which on waste by breaks basically.

Read some thermodynamics, Basics of physics, and some enthalpy values of organic chemistry.

You'll see the.(your assuming i havent read these topics or that i have not gained a sufficient knowledge of the said topics, wrong!)

And the patent right is only for 18years after the invention and by the time of now anybody can duplicate the product.

So i think that scientists in toyota , or PSA OR VW GroupS Who are so concern about hybrids are just dumb idiots who has forgotten the marvellous product.

Have some common sense when you live , so others can't cheat on you.you're just a common sri lankan who goes after myths...just becaure others do ,

(common sense in this particular case is to be applicable to you, if you have a opinion to voice, leave it at that.Without assuming you know shit about shit....)

let me guess,

you drive a Corolla...? (nope, why? do you?, not a bad car actually)

your post is unbelievably scathing, im fine with objective criticism but i cant help but think what i did to deserve such a personal attack.

i had hoped for a constructive dialog when i opened this thread. but that it seems, was my mistake.

listen up chan5 & listen good,

dont even pretend to know me, my education, my interests & what Ive done, you dumb ignorant sh*t.

[67Dodge]

Members, I have examined this HHO powered vehicles in USA personally. I remember last year one chap gave write up on the news papers that he had made a system in srilanka. I do not know the after effects of this system to engines. There are lot of advertisements on the web HHO generators working with water.As this topic had come up I post a web site on the above subject. http://www.hydroclubusa.com/hhoworks.html Sylvi Wijesinghe.

have a look at the link below, its basically a discussion on "Smokey Yunicks Vapor engine" . particularly of interest to me was the 5th comment from the last.... where the poster, (possibly srilankan?) makes mention of a local angle. That really shocked me.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=78116

[chan5]

wow!,... i dont believe in turning the right cheek, so, my turn,...

your post is unbelievably scathing, im fine with objective criticism but i cant help but think what i did to deserve such a personal attack.

i had hoped for a constructive dialog when i opened this thread. but that it seems, was my mistake.

listen up chan5 & listen good,

dont even pretend to know me, my education, my interests & what Ive done, you dumb ignorant sh*t.

seems to be red letters , it shows itself.

Ok. Let take this from the personal level and discuss the facts.

I didn't want to drag this to the level.but you seems to be blindly covering up the fact.without proper scientific basis.

and mind your language dumbshit.

Beat the facts if you can.

And it purely shows your understanding about basic sciences.

So let me explain in more simple way.

A breaking of bond requires energy, and if it's possible we could turn diesel into petrol by this small toy and sell it with a profit.knowing that petrol and diesel are both hydrocarbons with different sizes of chain lengths.

These simple concepts of science doesn't change at any context.

So it's utter wasting of time explaining these Basics to somebody who doesn't understand.

So beat the facts if you can.

I've no offence, but it really irritates when people trying to become scientists in public forums with red letters.

because there are people here those who are not having deep science knowledge, who are mislead by this irrational posts.remind you that there are bankers , accountants , artists , lawyers and other professionals here those who've done their secondary education in some other streams.

So it's better learn and speak.the fundamental objectives of a public forum is to help others with the things we know.

I don't speak a shit if i don't know.

And it doesn't amaze me by simply because.

I've seen water driven cars , wind powerd cars which tries to create energy in this country.

Yes of course it hurts .

If i get a chance to make decisions in this country.

the first thing i do is teach chemistry, physics , maths and biology for the next generation from lower school.

so they cannot be fooled

by miracles,

Get the point?

[67Dodge]

read my 1st post again,... slowly this time..... you dont understand the concept with which FE is to be gained as described.

the heat is simply a catalyst which breaks longer chains & then recombines/restructures the same molecules into a smaller chain. ever heard of catalytic reactions? happens everyday in any crude oil refinery. this process is said to simply increase yield of smaller chain HC's

just google "thermodynamics of cracking"....

"Turn diesel into petrol" ??? thats your understanding/analogy of this? jeez, small wonder your not accusing me of Alchemy!!

[67Dodge]

for those who are really interested in following this tech, a news snippet of interest by FOX news,

[chan5]

read my 1st post again,... slowly this time..... you dont understand the concept with which FE is to be gained as described.

the heat is simply a catalyst which breaks longer chains & then recombines/restructures the same molecules into a smaller chain. ever heard of catalytic reactions? happens everyday in any crude oil refinery. this process is said to simply increase yield of smaller chain HC's

just google "thermodynamics of cracking"....

"Turn diesel into petrol" ??? thats your understanding/analogy of this? jeez, small wonder your not accusing me of Alchemy!!

no point of explaining men.

Now you are trying so hard to become a scientist.

Anyway seems reading .

And just a simple fact again ,

diesel and petrol are same alkanes with different chain lengths.

So according to your gizmo it should break large diesel molecules into Octane right? C-8

and it's a simple principle we know that using a catalyst doesn't make the complete energy exchange of a reaction.just activation energy.still you've to break carbon bonds

and which needs energy.

Keep reading.It's healthy.

[The Stig]

So what exactly is the point of this thread again ?

[Crosswind]

So what exactly is the point of this thread again ?

The whole point of this thread is 67dodge is trying to be the next californikan.

@67dodge - dude, I really dont want to type pages and pages about why it doesn't work. Let me simply say that

1. petrol is a volatile substance and heating it can only make it more dangerous than it is

2. none of these stupid proponents of the magic carb (or whatever it is called), consider the energy wastage for heating fuel. The heat source also need to come from the engine after all, and it is definitely higher than the normal engine heat

3. We are living in 2012, where safety and efficiency as well as speeds of vehicles have moved a long way since 1930s. Taking knock-suppressants off fuel and building engines that run on such fuel will just make them explode before even finishing the first gallon of fuel.

4. Most of the members in this group have been with cars long enough to see water powered cars, cow dung powered cars, urine powered cars, cars that do 200km/l, garandiya-powered BMWs and so on... they are called SCAMs. SCAMMERS thrive by creating videos or webpages or getting headlines in newspapers.

So... before you become a certified lunatic like californikan.... please drop it.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Crosswind

[Californikan]

The whole point of this thread is 67dodge is trying to be the next californikan.

So... before you become a certified lunatic like californikan.... please drop it.

With regard specifically to hybrid and electric cars, what seems like 'certified lunacy' to you is normal mainstream thinking and everyday reality in America and other developed markets. Last year you couldn't even comprehend that Sri Lankans would be driving Hybrid vehicles en masse, even though the change was happening right in front of your eyes. This year you can't comprehend that Plug-In Hybrids will be coming to Sri Lanka. Next year you probably won't be able to comprehend that electric cars will come to Sri Lanka.

Now carry on with your disputing of Dodge67's snake oil claims.

[slcamel]

seems to be red letters , it shows itself.

Ok. Let take this from the personal level and discuss the facts.

I didn't want to drag this to the level.but you seems to be blindly covering up the fact.without proper scientific basis.

and mind your language dumbshit.

Beat the facts if you can.

And it purely shows your understanding about basic sciences.

So let me explain in more simple way.

A breaking of bond requires energy, and if it's possible we could turn diesel into petrol by this small toy and sell it with a profit.knowing that petrol and diesel are both hydrocarbons with different sizes of chain lengths.

These simple concepts of science doesn't change at any context.

So it's utter wasting of time explaining these Basics to somebody who doesn't understand.

So beat the facts if you can.

I've no offence, but it really irritates when people trying to become scientists in public forums with red letters.

because there are people here those who are not having deep science knowledge, who are mislead by this irrational posts.remind you that there are bankers , accountants , artists , lawyers and other professionals here those who've done their secondary education in some other streams.

So it's better learn and speak.the fundamental objectives of a public forum is to help others with the things we know.

I don't speak a shit if i don't know.

And it doesn't amaze me by simply because.

I've seen water driven cars , wind powerd cars which tries to create energy in this country.

Yes of course it hurts .

If i get a chance to make decisions in this country.

the first thing i do is teach chemistry, physics , maths and biology for the next generation from lower school.

so they cannot be fooled

by miracles,

Get the point?