Hybrids...do We Really Need Them?

[Duncan]

Just thought of provoking some thought here.

Hybrids are great but (IMO) not the best offer by the auto industry towards the green cause. So much money has gone into developing the internal combustion engine (to where it is today) the auto industry is not going to bring a mainstream alternative solution any time soon.

In my opinion hybrids are a way of cashing in on the green cause.

Whilst low emissions is a great thing (and for the record, I whole heartedly support the green cause) one has to admit that the one thing in the mind of the average car buyer is fuel efficiency. Especially these days when the cost of petrol is only going in one direction... up!

With this in mind I ask, are hybrids all that economical? Do their fuel efficiency compare well against advanced diesel engines available today?

What do yo think of this in......

(1) a global perception; and

(2) from a Sri-Lankan perception.

[Californikan]

Some thoughts.....

1) Fuel economy and emissions are integrally connected. The less fuel a vehicle burns, the less emissions it's engine tends to produce. So the person going for the most fuel economical car tends to be buying a lower emissions car anyway, whether they care about the environment or not.

2) Governments worldwide are backing hybrid and plug-in vehicles with tax incentives. That is a huge amount of government money and backing for hybrid vehicles, that diesel does not have and will not get.

3) Although diesels emissions have become much cleaner, they are still not as clean as hybrids.

The cleanest diesel system (Bluetec) requires expensive AdBlue to achieve it's low emissions. If an owner skips the AdBlue fillup and the AdBlue runs out, then the vehicle's emissions will increase significantly enough that it will not not meet emissions standards in some countries. Hybrids don't have this maintenance problem.

4) Although some diesels can match some current hybrids in fuel economy, diesel fuel economy is no match for the next generation plug-in hybrids that are now on sale in major markets, and will come to SL. Diesels cannot compete in fuel economy or emissions with plug-in vehicles.

5) Due to insurmountable technology and cost hurdles, there will no significant (cost or saleswise) diesel hybrids or plug-in hybrid diesel hybrids for the foreseeable future.

6) The "mainstream alternative" (electric cars) are already in major markets, but it'll take decades until they are truly mainstream. Carlos Ghosn of Nissan estimates well over 10 years to achieve a 10% worldwide market share for electric cars.

Conclusion: Hybrids have always been ahead of diesels in fuel economy, emissions and government backing. With the coming changeover from hybrid vehicles to plug-in hybrid vehicles to electric vehicles, the lead over diesel will only grow.

[blkr6]

yes we really do need them. if you compare gasoline engines vs hybrids; hybrids are economical, environmentally friendlier and better power output. Between Hybrids vs diesels eventhough its not a good comparison; diesels might offer better mpg but still it produces way more soot to the environment. Hybrid systems are still evolving and ill bet its going to be future of cars.

[Sylvi]

Members,

Definitely Hybrids and total Electric automobiles will dominate in future.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[vishkid]

In future being the key word ... two years back the hybrids we had did not offer much to the driving enthusiast. In fact, they were plain boring to operate on their suggested scope and looked plain fugly! Current crop is a definite improvement but cannot touch the comparable gasoline powered car for the OTR performance, except for some isolated or concept models like Mugen CRZ and so on. One thing they do though is save a reasonable amount for you on fuel and taxes.

Only reason to buy a Hybrid now is the saving factor and the some of the current vehicles also do not look half as bad as their previous generations.

Usually manufacturers pack them to the hilt with options as well, so as to lure buyers.

Form a Sri Lankan and environmental perspective - Hybrids matter jack shit. Our emissions are so low that a Sri Lanka full of gas guzzling and smoke belching vehicles would not even exceed a single US city limited to hybrids and electrical vehicles.

So for the next ten or so years, forget about hybrids - just drive the shit out of your 6km/L mean machine and enjoy life.

In 2020, I will probably think about buying a hybrid given the performance and the looks and the reliability has increased and the tax options definitely would favour them at that point.

[CARBON B4]

With this in mind I ask, are hybrids all that economical? Do their fuel efficiency compare well against advanced diesel engines available today? What do yo think of this in...... (1) a global perception; and (2) from a Sri-Lankan perception.

Form a Sri Lankan point of view, its pretty obvious that Hybrids are much more economical, take for example the new Aqua which does 40kmpl, say this is an exaggerated by Toyota, but even if it does 35kmpl, that far better than what even the most advanced diesel engines will get..

Anyway this topic has been analysed to death in the " Will Hybrids fail or succeed " thread.... there is enough information in there on Hybrids than Wikipedia .. !!

[Komisiripala]

How about fully electric then? Like a tesla model S?

Wouldn't that be the shizz in a country that ideally didn't burn fossil fuels to generate power?

[charitha19]

[terrabytetango]

Not ANOTHER hybrid thread.

[Pericles]

Tech is weird, people. In 10-20 years, we might not have cars as we recognize them now. Maybe full of personal 1 man transporters (or which the Segway is the granddaddy), power suits or exo-skeletons, or even "beam me up, Scotty". Maybe roads themselves will become obsolete. Fusion power, hyrdogen fuel cells. This whole hybrid thing is so short term.

[Supra_Natural]

Tech is weird, people. In 10-20 years, we might not have cars as we recognize them now. Maybe full of personal 1 man transporters (or which the Segway is the granddaddy), power suits or exo-skeletons, or even "beam me up, Scotty". Maybe roads themselves will become obsolete. Fusion power, hyrdogen fuel cells. This whole hybrid thing is so short term.

Funny thing, that's exactly what people were saying 2012 would be like back in the late 70's/early 80's. Im sure "prophets" like ALs very own Connecticut based joker existed even then.

They probably got their asses kicked just as much back then too.

[Pericles]

Funny thing, that's exactly what people were saying 2012 would be like back in the late 70's/early 80's. Im sure "prophets" like ALs very own Connecticut based joker existed even then.

They probably got their asses kicked just as much back then too.

It IS taking longer than expected The American's are dragging their behinds in the tech fields instead of getting on it, and oil is still the big money provider.

But still, one can always dream of the day we all have Ironman suits and fly around

[terrabytetango]

The end began when they cancelled Group B racing.

Edited March 23, 2012 by terrabytetango

[NadriquE]

here we go again

[priyanka]

Members,

Definitely Hybrids and total Electric automobiles will dominate in future.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

i agree

[jdnet]

It IS taking longer than expected The American's are dragging their behinds in the tech fields instead of getting on it,

well the Americans did invent the electro handjob and real doll. Welcome to the future of technology.

[whmsujith]

Members,

Definitely Hybrids and total Electric automobiles will dominate in future.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

but after begining of this year there is a drop of sales of hybrods in SL

[The Don]

I think I've said it before, Hybrids are an interim step to full electrics which is where mainstream auto-mobiles are heading in the moment. Mass generation of power is a lot more efficient than having smaller power plants all over which is the rationale for all of this.

Hybrids are important because like with anything the technology needs to be perfected for consumer use and infrastructure needs time to develop so it is a bridging solution.

But like with all early adopters, the users will be the guinea pigs and it'll be some time before it is perfected. Many issues still remain like battery disposal, the environmental impact of creating these vehicles, the durability of the highly complicated electronics etc.

[Californikan]

Wait a minute Don , hybrids are a mature technology now. They've been on the worldwide market for 15 years and the reliability/durability is proven. The people who bought a hybrid 10 or 15 years ago might have been guinea pigs, but not anymore.

[The Don]

Wait a minute Don , hybrids are a mature technology now. They've been on the worldwide market for 15 years and the reliability/durability is proven. The people who bought a hybrid 10 or 15 years ago might have been guinea pigs, but not anymore.

In the world of the automobile 15 years is not really mature Californikan. And you have to remember it was one company who did most of the pioneering work, and then another one jumped in the band wagon and we have others joining in just now.

It's a bit like automatic transmission. The US switched over many decades ago but it has only become the norm in SL in around the last decade. The issue was fuel efficiency but most importantly maintenance.

Anyway it's good to have discussions but there is no point having the same argument over and over again. I think my view of this is pretty well known. I am not an objector to hybrids, in fact I welcome it but in the country where cars never die I am not sure whether its the right choice at this present moment, and by the time it is the right choice the hybrids we see would be a lot more advanced, and we might have already embraced full electrics.

Short term fuel efficiency has to be weighed against long term cost of ownership (remember the time everybody switched to autogas and then back to petrol) so I am not at the moment convinced by the argument being put forward.

[terrabytetango]

Wait a minute Don , hybrids are a mature technology now. They've been on the worldwide market for 15 years and the reliability/durability is proven. The people who bought a hybrid 10 or 15 years ago might have been guinea pigs, but not anymore.

Rotaries have been here for 30+ years but only Mazda makes them, whats your point?

[rameez]

Tech is weird, people. In 10-20 years, we might not have cars as we recognize them now. Maybe full of personal 1 man transporters (or which the Segway is the granddaddy), power suits or exo-skeletons, or even "beam me up, Scotty". Maybe roads themselves will become obsolete. Fusion power, hyrdogen fuel cells. This whole hybrid thing is so short term.

so you now predicting the future as well...??

[terrabytetango]

so you now predicting the future as well...??

It's called speculation.

[Pericles]

so you now predicting the future as well...??

"Might" and "Maybe" doesn't make it a prediction. Just a possibility.

[Californikan]

Rotaries have been here for 30+ years but only Mazda makes them, whats your point?

That 4+ million hybrids have been sold and on the road worldwide over the last 15 years, and they have proven their reliability/durability over the last 15 years at least. So someone buying a hybrid in 2012 is not being a guinea pig like the person buying one of the early 1st gen hybrids back in 1997 was.